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    Conservative Ireland

    With all the talk about how little Deccie and Eddie before him take chances/give youth a chance/build for World Cups etc I thought I'd look at the 2007 and 2010 squads to see if it really is the same 30 players been dragged around for 10 years (or just 4 in this case). Below is a list of the players who were in both squads (and in brackets the differences)

    PROPS: 0 (Best/Hayes/Horan/Young------>Buckley/Court/Healy/Ross)
    HOOKERS: 1 BEST (Flannery/Sheehan------>Cronin/Varley)
    LOCKS: 2 POC/DOC (O'Kelly---------->Cullen/Ryan)
    BACK ROW: 2 FERRIS/LEAMY (Easterby/Quinlan/Wallace------>Jennings/O'Brien/Heaslip)
    SCRUM HALVES: 2 BOSS/REDDAN (Stringer-------->Murray)
    OUT HALVES: 1 ROG (Sexton)
    CENTRES: 3 BOD/DARCY/WALLACE (McFadden)
    BACK 3: 2 TRIMBLE/MURPHY (Duffy/Carney/Hickie/Horgan/Dempsey----->Bowe/Earls/Kearney)

    So in the 4 year spell there was a turnover of 17 players. For a country with realistically 3 and a half teams and limited numbers I think thats a very good turnaround and shows that, as I expected, there is always change there and it'll come in 1s and 2s and not as wholesale as England are doing but change does happen

    #2
    There I was thinking a thread about the catholic Church.
    Anybody who sees a psychiatrist would want their head examined. &nb sp;Henry Ford

    Comment


      #3
      Originally posted by garryowen2323 View Post
      With all the talk about how little Deccie and Eddie before him take chances/give youth a chance/build for World Cups etc I thought I'd look at the 2007 and 2010 squads to see if it really is the same 30 players been dragged around for 10 years (or just 4 in this case). Below is a list of the players who were in both squads (and in brackets the differences)

      PROPS: 0 (Best/Hayes/Horan/Young------>Buckley/Court/Healy/Ross)
      HOOKERS: 1 BEST (Flannery/Sheehan------>Cronin/Varley)
      LOCKS: 2 POC/DOC (O'Kelly---------->Cullen/Ryan)
      BACK ROW: 2 FERRIS/LEAMY (Easterby/Quinlan/Wallace------>Jennings/O'Brien/Heaslip)
      SCRUM HALVES: 2 BOSS/REDDAN (Stringer-------->Murray)
      OUT HALVES: 1 ROG (Sexton)
      CENTRES: 3 BOD/DARCY/WALLACE (McFadden)
      BACK 3: 2 TRIMBLE/MURPHY (Duffy/Carney/Hickie/Horgan/Dempsey----->Bowe/Earls/Kearney)

      So in the 4 year spell there was a turnover of 17 players. For a country with realistically 3 and a half teams and limited numbers I think thats a very good turnaround and shows that, as I expected, there is always change there and it'll come in 1s and 2s and not as wholesale as England are doing but change does happen
      You can prove anything with statistics!

      Add back the enforced changes through injury and see the comparison then:- in all probability, Flannery/BOD/Wallace would be on the team and Leamy in the 22. And that doesn't take the changes enforced on him through retirement into consideration!

      Fact it - he's as conservative as Margaret Thatcher - and at least she had the cojones to sack under-performers from her Cabinet!
      New infraction avoidance policy: a post may be described as imbecilic, but its author should never be described as an imbecile.

      Comment


        #4
        Youre never going to satisfy the begrudgers.

        In his own words......he was questioned during the RWC when he gave a promising newcomer the 9 shirt.
        Anybody who sees a psychiatrist would want their head examined. &nb sp;Henry Ford

        Comment


          #5
          Originally posted by Old Dog View Post
          You can prove anything with statistics!

          Add back the enforced changes through injury and see the comparison then:- in all probability, Flannery/BOD/Wallace would be on the team and Leamy in the 22. And that doesn't take the changes enforced on him through retirement into consideration!

          Fact it - he's as conservative as Margaret Thatcher - and at least she had the cojones to sack under-performers from her Cabinet!
          Flannery has been well gone for a while now. Look through every sport and you'll see that injuries are the main reason other players get there chance. So Wallace starts 7 and Leamy's on the bench and he drops one of Ferris/O'Brien I suppose?

          Teams always progress over the years. We don't have the players good enough to make 10 changes like a France or England but the progression always happens. Who'll ever replace Claw and Galwey I remember everyone shouting years ago.

          Comment


            #6
            Originally posted by cornerboy View Post
            Youre never going to satisfy the begrudgers.

            In his own words......he was questioned during the RWC when he gave a promising newcomer the 9 shirt.
            Except that he wasn't! Pure spin. Invent a straw man so you can knock him down - oldest trick in the book.
            New infraction avoidance policy: a post may be described as imbecilic, but its author should never be described as an imbecile.

            Comment


              #7
              Originally posted by garryowen2323 View Post
              Flannery has been well gone for a while now. Look through every sport and you'll see that injuries are the main reason other players get there chance. So Wallace starts 7 and Leamy's on the bench and he drops one of Ferris/O'Brien I suppose?

              Teams always progress over the years. We don't have the players good enough to make 10 changes like a France or England but the progression always happens. Who'll ever replace Claw and Galwey I remember everyone shouting years ago.
              You made a point that DK wasn't conservative and put forward a list of changes to justify your view.

              I pointed out that a lot of the "changes" that you had flagged hadn't been DK decisions per se, but changes that circumstances had forced on him.

              That said, I applaud his selection of the likes of CM and would like to see him making more such selections, I don't want to see the likes of Wally, Fla or Leamy - or BOD - automatically rejoining the Green Monkey squad unless their form on the pitch justifies it.

              Thank you.
              New infraction avoidance policy: a post may be described as imbecilic, but its author should never be described as an imbecile.

              Comment


                #8
                Originally posted by Old Dog View Post
                You can prove anything with statistics!

                Add back the enforced changes through injury and see the comparison then:- in all probability, Flannery/BOD/Wallace would be on the team and Leamy in the 22. And that doesn't take the changes enforced on him through retirement into consideration!

                Fact it - he's as conservative as Margaret Thatcher - and at least she had the cojones to sack under-performers from her Cabinet!
                I would have said that the Iron Lady was the least conservative Conservative prime minister the UK has ever seen, it was the people she sacked/ 'resigned', the 'wets', who were the conservative ones so maybe your similie has merit OD.

                Comment


                  #9
                  Originally posted by the plastic paddy View Post
                  I would have said that the Iron Lady was the least conservative Conservative prime minister the UK has ever seen, it was the people she sacked/ 'resigned', the 'wets', who were the conservative ones so maybe your similie has merit OD.
                  That, rather like rugby, women and whether steak should be cooked blue or well done, is a matter of opinion!
                  New infraction avoidance policy: a post may be described as imbecilic, but its author should never be described as an imbecile.

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Originally posted by Old Dog View Post
                    You made a point that DK wasn't conservative and put forward a list of changes to justify your view.

                    I pointed out that a lot of the "changes" that you had flagged hadn't been DK decisions per se, but changes that circumstances had forced on him.

                    That said, I applaud his selection of the likes of CM and would like to see him making more such selections, I don't want to see the likes of Wally, Fla or Leamy - or BOD - automatically rejoining the Green Monkey squad unless their form on the pitch justifies it.

                    Thank you.
                    Well said Old Dog. Form and adaptability in terms of evolving game plans is what matters - Hence why Ryan or Tuohy not getting the nod on Sunday is very disconcerting.

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Originally posted by Old Dog View Post
                      That, rather like rugby, women and whether steak should be cooked blue or well done, is a matter of opinion!
                      And also not for a rugby forum so probably best left.

                      Comment


                        #12
                        How is it disconcerting when DOC has consistently been a better player at international level than Ryan?

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Originally posted by Old Dog View Post
                          You made a point that DK wasn't conservative and put forward a list of changes to justify your view.

                          I pointed out that a lot of the "changes" that you had flagged hadn't been DK decisions per se, but changes that circumstances had forced on him.

                          That said, I applaud his selection of the likes of CM and would like to see him making more such selections, I don't want to see the likes of Wally, Fla or Leamy - or BOD - automatically rejoining the Green Monkey squad unless their form on the pitch justifies it.

                          Thank you.
                          But having had changes thrust upon him by the accident of injury, DK has had to maintain experience in the team to compensate; I believe this is the reason why D'Arcy is playing 12 this 6 nations, if BOD had been fit I think a new man might have come in for him (D'Arcy). As far as DOC is concerned, could he have reasoned POC had enough on his plate being captain without having to shelter DR or Tuohy through their first 6 nations start? Being a bit of a devil's advocate as I would have rather seen DR start.
                          Last edited by the plastic paddy; 2nd-February-2012, 14:32.

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Originally posted by garryowen2323 View Post
                            With all the talk about how little Deccie and Eddie before him take chances/give youth a chance/build for World Cups etc I thought I'd look at the 2007 and 2010 squads to see if it really is the same 30 players been dragged around for 10 years (or just 4 in this case). Below is a list of the players who were in both squads (and in brackets the differences)

                            PROPS: 0 (Best/Hayes/Horan/Young------>Buckley/Court/Healy/Ross)
                            HOOKERS: 1 BEST (Flannery/Sheehan------>Cronin/Varley)
                            LOCKS: 2 POC/DOC (O'Kelly---------->Cullen/Ryan)
                            BACK ROW: 2 FERRIS/LEAMY (Easterby/Quinlan/Wallace------>Jennings/O'Brien/Heaslip)
                            SCRUM HALVES: 2 BOSS/REDDAN (Stringer-------->Murray)
                            OUT HALVES: 1 ROG (Sexton)
                            CENTRES: 3 BOD/DARCY/WALLACE (McFadden)
                            BACK 3: 2 TRIMBLE/MURPHY (Duffy/Carney/Hickie/Horgan/Dempsey----->Bowe/Earls/Kearney)

                            So in the 4 year spell there was a turnover of 17 players. For a country with realistically 3 and a half teams and limited numbers I think thats a very good turnaround and shows that, as I expected, there is always change there and it'll come in 1s and 2s and not as wholesale as England are doing but change does happen
                            You could probably knock 10 players off your turnover list due to retirement or injury. A more realistic figure would be 7 or so, which shows that DK was willing to do such revolutionary things like pick Healy over Marcus, Ross over Hayes etc...

                            Far from supporting your point, I think you've undermined it.

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Originally posted by Dowlinz View Post
                              How is it disconcerting when DOC has consistently been a better player at international level than Ryan?
                              Thats in the past. Ryan is the better player at present.

                              Comment

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