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6N R3) England in Twickenham - Sunday Feb 23rd @ 15.00

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    Originally posted by In Joe we trust View Post
    I think Killer offers far more off the bench as a ball carrier for the last 30 mins so I would leave Healy starting. I don't think Toner is a bench player so would have Dillane instead on the bench. I would have Cooney at 9 and Doris at 8. So I've no problem in leaving Leinster players out

    Sent from my SM-G965F using Tapatalk
    Why leave a better player on the bench for 50 minutes, just because he makes more impact for the last 30 than Healy would in the reverse situation?

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      Originally posted by Munsterboy View Post

      Why leave a better player on the bench for 50 minutes, just because he makes more impact for the last 30 than Healy would in the reverse situation?
      Is that not a pretty old fashioned take on how a 23 man squad is used, there’s starters and there’s finishers.
      Only fools and drunks argue over everything. If you don’t have a hangover the next day you’re not the drunk...

      Comment


        Originally posted by Munsterboy View Post

        Why leave a better player on the bench for 50 minutes, just because he makes more impact for the last 30 than Healy would in the reverse situation?
        The thinking is that 30 minutes of Kilcoyne is better than 50-60 of him and that 50-60 of Healy is better than 50-60 of Kilcoyne. I don't know if I agree with it, but you saw how SA did it and it is just like "oh ****, here come these guys" b/c there is no drop off in quality. Also, how many tiring defenses can cope with a prop who can carry like that coming on at 50 minutes ? When they're fresh, it is easier to stop him, when he's fresh and most of the pack has already put in a shift, the tackling becomes weaker and a guy like him can pick up those extra yards instead of getting stopped at the point of contact. In a close game, the impact off the bench can be critical. I'd like to see him get rewarded for the form he's been showing, but I don't think you lose anything with Healy starting while you would lose that extra punch Kilcoyne brings in the last 25-30 minutes.

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          What do ye think of Kelleher? I haven't seen much of him for Leinster but he's been impressive in green to date.

          Comment


            Originally posted by kahalui View Post
            What do ye think of Kelleher? I haven't seen much of him for Leinster but he's been impressive in green to date.
            Had a remarkably successful start to his senior career,
            before an injury sidelined him- surprised he has gone to green so soon (not having really much quality opposition in that senior career), but looks capable of grabbing that chance. Hard to see Herring keeping the starting jersey long term, or, for me why he was preferred over Scannell. Hopefully the latter will start pulling up trees, and justify a recall, but with KOB and Marshall at his heels he may have enough to do to keep his starting place in red, let alone green.

            Comment


              Originally posted by kahalui View Post
              What do ye think of Kelleher? I haven't seen much of him for Leinster but he's been impressive in green to date.
              Physically equipped and only going to get better at everything he does I guess...
              Gwan Joe!!

              Comment


                Originally posted by Oldschoolsocks View Post

                Is that not a pretty old fashioned take on how a 23 man squad is used, there’s starters and there’s finishers.
                Sure, we should stick all our best lads on the bench for impact so. What nonsense. You start your best.

                Comment


                  I see 'Unreal' and 'Even Better than the Real Thing' were in Irish camp this week. You'd swear it was a Reality TV show!!

                  Boom, boom...
                  Last edited by Daithi; 20-February-2020, 20:32.
                  ____________________________________________
                  Munster were great when they were Munster.

                  alas they are just north munster now.......
                  ____________________________________________

                  Comment


                    Originally posted by ustix View Post

                    Physically equipped and only going to get better at everything he does I guess...
                    Only played 10mins or so the last day but still managed a few dominant tackles and big carries. Also looked assured at the breakdown and set piece.

                    Comment


                      Originally posted by Finnegan79 View Post

                      The thinking is that 30 minutes of Kilcoyne is better than 50-60 of him and that 50-60 of Healy is better than 50-60 of Kilcoyne. I don't know if I agree with it, but you saw how SA did it and it is just like "oh ****, here come these guys" b/c there is no drop off in quality. Also, how many tiring defenses can cope with a prop who can carry like that coming on at 50 minutes ? When they're fresh, it is easier to stop him, when he's fresh and most of the pack has already put in a shift, the tackling becomes weaker and a guy like him can pick up those extra yards instead of getting stopped at the point of contact. In a close game, the impact off the bench can be critical. I'd like to see him get rewarded for the form he's been showing, but I don't think you lose anything with Healy starting while you would lose that extra punch Kilcoyne brings in the last 25-30 minutes.
                      Healys carrying isn't at the level of a few years ago and I'm not convinced he offers what he used to at scrum time either. There was a noticeable difference when Kilcoyne came on (not implying it was all down to him). If that trend continues, there's an argument for starting the stronger scrummager.

                      Comment


                        Originally posted by Munsterboy View Post

                        Sure, we should stick all our best lads on the bench for impact so. What nonsense. You start your best.
                        Not what I said. But as I said, it’s just an outdated way of thinking, like players being dropped
                        Last edited by Oldschoolsocks; 20-February-2020, 21:50.
                        Only fools and drunks argue over everything. If you don’t have a hangover the next day you’re not the drunk...

                        Comment


                          Originally posted by kahalui View Post

                          Healys carrying isn't at the level of a few years ago and I'm not convinced he offers what he used to at scrum time either. There was a noticeable difference when Kilcoyne came on (not implying it was all down to him). If that trend continues, there's an argument for starting the stronger scrummager.
                          When Killer came on though he was up against a prop who had been playing for 50 mins so would have been tired also.

                          Sent from my SM-G965F using Tapatalk

                          Comment


                            Originally posted by kahalui View Post

                            Healys carrying isn't at the level of a few years ago and I'm not convinced he offers what he used to at scrum time either. There was a noticeable difference when Kilcoyne came on (not implying it was all down to him). If that trend continues, there's an argument for starting the stronger scrummager.
                            Yeah I agree with that if the "downward" trend continues for Healy. I'd like to see McGrath get some minutes in green as well. He was playing very well a few seasons ago, was a test Lion, and has been playing well for Ulster. Competition breeds better performances out of everyone.

                            Comment


                              Originally posted by In Joe we trust View Post
                              When Killer came on though he was up against a prop who had been playing for 50 mins so would have been tired also.

                              Sent from my SM-G965F using Tapatalk
                              I agree that's not fair on the starting prop...….all front rows should be changed at an agreed time.
                              Anybody who sees a psychiatrist would want their head examined. &nb sp;Henry Ford

                              Comment


                                Originally posted by Oldschoolsocks View Post
                                Not what I said. But as I said, it’s just an outdated way of thinking, like players being dropped
                                There’s nothing outdated about starting your best players. You can use Eddie Jones’ terminology if you like but you still won’t see England putting Billy V on the bench because he can make huge impact as a “finisher”.

                                Killer is currently playing better than Healy over 60-80 minutes. His scrummaging is as good and his play around the field is superior. Having him on the bench just for impact is a waste.

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