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South Africa to join the Six Nations?

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  • redherring
    replied
    Originally posted by Daithi View Post
    I really detest that the unions are considering selling out to CVC. There are 6 unions in the 6Ns, I get that the SRU, WRU & IRF might have stupidly voted to sell some equity for cash, but surely the RFU, FFR & IRFU would have voted against!?!

    I really can't see why the 6Ns are selling out. It's mind numbingly obvious they are losing control of the game in their respective countries, which is their mission.

    Without that, they're nothing.
    And makes you think there is no way this would happen under Tom Kiernan or Noel Murphy's watch.

    Leave a comment:


  • Balla Boy
    replied

    The 6 nations is not a pay TV product, imo. The bulk of the people watching it wouldn't watch a rugby match from one end of the year to the other bar this competition. It's a sad fact in a way, but it's also the beauty and uniqueness of the competition - it has huge traction with casual fans.

    But the precedent for a Pay TV rugby model isn't the endless riches of soccer. It's what's happened with test cricket, which has retained only dedicated viewers, and where participation numbers in the sport have dropped.

    Soccer worked because it had a dedicated club based fab base that would pay to watch week in week out. That fan base is there in rugby, but it's not big as the travails of the Pro 14 and the failure of the Nigels to deliver on their promises for the new Heineken Cup have shown.

    The frustrating thing for me is that even in the medium term, the unions are strapping their futures to a model that we know has built in obsolescence. Streaming services are multiplying, and while I'm sure there are big changes to come in that space I think the days of paying X amount for one generic subscription that you use 10% of has limited road in front of it.

    I'd love to see subscriptions for rugby going the route of the NFL model - a unified on line channel with season tickets, club bundles etc etc. Channels aimed at getting the product to the consumer, rather than channels using "crown jewels" to lure begruding fans into paying for **** they don't want.

    Leave a comment:


  • jagawayagain
    replied
    Originally posted by bankman View Post

    People dont see beyond some short term gain and the problem with going down this route is once you start the very fabric and roots of our competition and game will become eroded. "Comrad"
    Yes brother.

    Leave a comment:


  • Finnegan79
    replied
    Originally posted by dropkick View Post


    And then all they need do is to get Australia, NZ and Japan on board and voila, we've got the world league we didn't want. Then the calendar would be moved to whatever suits the Kiwis.
    That's the thing though, SA wants to leave the SH teams behind. There is zero point in them joining the 6N if the "world league" starts up as a result. I think the shift will be from north-south to west-east. Argentina gets caught in the middle somewhere. They're either the team furthest to the west or the team on the extreme eastern edge. Since they are on the Atlantic, i think they'd be classified with the western nations. The players won't go for the "world league" and the unions in the NH won't either. This is all part of the growing pains of a professional sports. You can look at the history of most major sports leagues and they have all evolved.

    Leave a comment:


  • bankman
    replied
    Originally posted by jagawayagain View Post

    I agree with you- and to me the ‘solution’ for the struggling unions is to get a larger share of any tv deal than those who are thriving- with a view to enabling them to develop their game, and no longer needing the support. However, if you look at the situation in England, what you see is the cutting of support to lower divisions, rather than helping to grow the game. Unfortunately, rugby seems to prefer to have the fat get fatter, and the thin starve, and to buy food for its overindulgence by selling off the land which might enable us to grow more for all. CVC and their ilk are merely profiteering pirates. I sometimes worry I am a socialist at heart (not something I regard as a positive, but I accept others have very different views).
    People dont see beyond some short term gain and the problem with going down this route is once you start the very fabric and roots of our competition and game will become eroded. "Comrad"

    Leave a comment:


  • jagawayagain
    replied
    Originally posted by Daithi View Post
    I really detest that the unions are considering selling out to CVC. There are 6 unions in the 6Ns, I get that the SRU, WRU & IRF might have stupidly voted to sell some equity for cash, but surely the RFU, FFR & IRFU would have voted against!?!

    I really can't see why the 6Ns are selling out. It's mind numbingly obvious they are losing control of the game in their respective countries, which is their mission.

    Without that, they're nothing.
    I agree with you- and to me the ‘solution’ for the struggling unions is to get a larger share of any tv deal than those who are thriving- with a view to enabling them to develop their game, and no longer needing the support. However, if you look at the situation in England, what you see is the cutting of support to lower divisions, rather than helping to grow the game. Unfortunately, rugby seems to prefer to have the fat get fatter, and the thin starve, and to buy food for its overindulgence by selling off the land which might enable us to grow more for all. CVC and their ilk are merely profiteering pirates. I sometimes worry I am a socialist at heart (not something I regard as a positive, but I accept others have very different views).

    Leave a comment:


  • Daithi
    replied
    I really detest that the unions are considering selling out to CVC. There are 6 unions in the 6Ns, I get that the SRU, WRU & IRF might have stupidly voted to sell some equity for cash, but surely the RFU, FFR & IRFU would have voted against!?!

    I really can't see why the 6Ns are selling out. It's mind numbingly obvious they are losing control of the game in their respective countries, which is their mission.

    Without that, they're nothing.

    Leave a comment:


  • jagawayagain
    replied
    Originally posted by dropkick View Post


    And then all they need do is to get Australia, NZ and Japan on board and voila, we've got the world league we didn't want. Then the calendar would be moved to whatever suits the Kiwis.
    And there you have it (except for Argentina)....a month long tour to the Far East, playing japan, aus, nz away, every second year, each of them do the same every second year, and you’re nearly there with the logistics, maybe throw in a few games in the US, maybe for teams travelling out to/ back from the Far East tour- so that there is the basis of another product to be developed and exploited. I hate this, but we are a bit like Arthur dent in the face of the vogon constructor fleet.

    Maybe I’m just getting old, I am barely getting used to the 6N, I still think of it as it’s triple crown, with France as an add on, and Italy as irrelevance.

    Leave a comment:


  • dropkick
    replied
    Originally posted by Finnegan79 View Post

    Large viewing audience to drive up the value of the TV rights. Lets say you have to have one of SA or Italy. It's a no brainer in terms of quality of the matches and viewing numbers. More SA residents will tune in to watch the Boks than Italian people turn in to watch their team play. CVC coming in and buying any stake in the 6N completely changes the game. Traditions are nice, but they don't pay the bills, and that's how the unions will look at things from now on. Greed is infectious and CVC will promise the people running things that expansion to a larger audience is the way to go b/c the money will come in like an avalanche. They don't care one bit that the 6N has always been a northern hemisphere competition, where it came from and how it evolved from the Home Nations, to the 5 Nations and now the 6 Nations. They couldn't give one single ****. Any knock on effect on SH rugby doesn't matter to them b/c all they are concerned with is their bottom line and what they can pump out of their investment. My worry is that they bring SA in, move it to the 7N and play 6 tests in 7 weeks, putting further strain on the players. CVC doesn't really care about that b/c these guys are just meat to be ground for them to make a profit.

    And then all they need do is to get Australia, NZ and Japan on board and voila, we've got the world league we didn't want. Then the calendar would be moved to whatever suits the Kiwis.

    Leave a comment:


  • Piquet
    replied
    If BT reckon they're in with a chance of getting exclusive coverage of the Six Nations, they'll throw the Scots and the Welsh a few bob (again) and our Celtic cousins will sell us out (again)

    Leave a comment:


  • Daithi
    replied
    Which is why the unions should be resisting this development big time imho. I get it that the Welsh & Scottish unions in particular are struggling to pay their way but surely limiting salaries & costs and maximising the attractiveness and annual revenue of the 6Ns & their international teams is the way to go there.

    These one off cash bonanzas selling equity are self defeating imho. Why? They tend to just drive up recurring running costs until they've effectively sold their right to run the game in their (& our) country just to pay the bills. Scary tbh, I'm disgusted the 6Ns are selling (part of) their franchise like this- it's really not smart imho... start of a rocky road to nowhere!! :(((
    Last edited by Daithi; 18th-February-2020, 22:29.

    Leave a comment:


  • Finnegan79
    replied
    Originally posted by Daithi View Post
    I can see why they might want to move but can't see why the 6Ns would want them tbh...
    Large viewing audience to drive up the value of the TV rights. Lets say you have to have one of SA or Italy. It's a no brainer in terms of quality of the matches and viewing numbers. More SA residents will tune in to watch the Boks than Italian people turn in to watch their team play. CVC coming in and buying any stake in the 6N completely changes the game. Traditions are nice, but they don't pay the bills, and that's how the unions will look at things from now on. Greed is infectious and CVC will promise the people running things that expansion to a larger audience is the way to go b/c the money will come in like an avalanche. They don't care one bit that the 6N has always been a northern hemisphere competition, where it came from and how it evolved from the Home Nations, to the 5 Nations and now the 6 Nations. They couldn't give one single ****. Any knock on effect on SH rugby doesn't matter to them b/c all they are concerned with is their bottom line and what they can pump out of their investment. My worry is that they bring SA in, move it to the 7N and play 6 tests in 7 weeks, putting further strain on the players. CVC doesn't really care about that b/c these guys are just meat to be ground for them to make a profit.

    Leave a comment:


  • Daithi
    replied
    I can see why they might want to move but can't see why the 6Ns would want them tbh...

    Leave a comment:


  • Finnegan79
    replied
    Originally posted by jagawayagain View Post

    Agree with this, if SA left they could look at incorporating japan, Fiji, Samoa. It’s also possible that SA don’t really want to move, but are just using it as a negotiating position to protect against rescue of the game in Oz doesn’t end up costing SA too much.
    I think they actually do want to move. The time zones are a killer for them in terms of viewing the games, which lowers the ratings which in turn affects the TV deals they can negotiate. At least Europe is only two hours behind them instead of being 9 or 10 hours ahead like Aus and NZ are. Also, travelling up to Europe is a bit easier than going to NZ, Aus and Argentina. The jet lag on the players isn't as bad when the time shift isn't as dramatic

    Leave a comment:


  • LPAC
    replied
    I'd prefer to see the Argies set up base in Barcelona and play in a 7 nations.

    Leave a comment:

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