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2020 Guinness 6 Nations

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    #61
    The Good:
    1. O’Donoghue’s form rewarded.
    2. Injection of youth (Deegan, Doris and O’Toole).
    3. Viable counter-attacker in the 15 jersey.

    The Bad:
    1. None of the hookers selected are particularly good at throwing.
    2. Sexton is currently injured and hard to have a lot of confidence in Byrne (Didn’t look ready 5 months ago) or Burns (Unproven in International rugby).
    3. McCloskey winning Ulster’s player of the year and continuing his good form, without being rewarded.

    Comment


      #62


      Originally posted by Stringer9 View Post

      Sure send the whole Munster contingent back to Limerick and leave the others work away with Ireland. Give them more time with Larkham and Rowntree.
      Murray, Earls, POM, CJ are a complete write off at this point apparently. We might be lucky to have maybe 1 or 2 players involved in the match day squad. But realistically if we’re going off “form” Killer and JOD will probably get to hold a tackle bag or two...if they’re lucky. Conway might start but sure probably won’t make the cut. Chris Farrell probably won’t start either.
      See how they go, at some point there might be a realization that it’s a hell of a lot easier to look like a superstar playing against a poor Lyon team compared to international level rugby.

      I’m not saying the players picked to the squad aren’t very good players or aren’t deserving of selection but at some point there needs to be a reality check for some people, as to what goes in to picking a team. A team selection, shock horror, isn’t a fantasy rugby team. It’s about the team as a whole. The strength of the front row, the ability of the hooker. If we have a weak hooker at lineout time we need to compensate elsewhere in the pack. Every call has a knock on effect. Etc.

      It’s the lack of knowledge behind the comments is what I find the most comical/irritating. My favourite was the outrage at the WC selection of Kleyn over Toner, just clueless.
      The obsession with POM is nearly worrisome, again a bit clueless. POM is not a big ball carrier, he never has been but that isn’t what he’s in the team for. If we are losing collisions (like we are at Munster) he’s going to get the brunt of the blame (as he is now) as he always does but put him in with big ball carriers you see that he is one of the best forwards in supportive play that you could ask for. It’s something that he has shown time and time again at the lineout, breakdown and the maul. He also has skills our wide when it comes to handling the ball and positional judgement. But sure let’s forget all of that, his stats on ESPN are poor. I’m not suggesting Farrell should start him but again the old of understanding about his position is comical.

      The squad announcement just brings up the worst out of so many. This whole time frame around the international games remind me how much I’ve grown to dislike this time of year. Just nasty, elitist opinions from keyboard warriors from overnight experts and mind numbing opinions from pundits.
      So what pack would you put out that would enable POM to flourish?

      Sent from my SM-G965F using Tapatalk

      Comment


        #63
        Originally posted by Yatenga View Post

        On the plus side plenty of time for Rowntree to get into the heads of Scannell, Ryan, Archer. Not to mention Cronin, Loughman, KOB and Marshall.
        I hope so. I think Killer made a big jump in the 18 months running up to the World Cup, but he's conspicuous in his isolation.

        I know players have their ceiling, and you can't roast them for being who they are. It just frustrates me that we can't seem to lift some of these players by the relatively sleight margin that would make the difference, while the likes of Klein, Ryan, Scannell are being overtaken.


        Big response needed from players and coaches.
        "We will not walk in fear, one of another. We will not be driven into an age of unreason if we dig deep into our history and remember we are not descended from fearful men" Edward R Murrow

        "Little by little, we have been brought into the present condition in which we are able neither to tolerate the evils from which we suffer, nor the remedies we need to cure them." - Livy


        "I think that progress has been made by two flames that have always been burning in the human heart. The flame of anger against injustice and the flame of hope that you can build a better world" - Tony Benn

        Comment


          #64
          Originally posted by Daithi View Post
          THis 6 Ns imho

          England to win it
          Wales likely runners up
          France likely 3rd
          Ireland likely 4th (maybe 3rd)
          Scotland
          Italy

          So Ireland to beat Scotland, close v Wales at home , but I think Wales are more likely to win, losing away in Twickers, up against it in Paris and win easily v Italy at home.

          Sexton is likely to be a poor one season captain in another poor 6Ns by Ireland . Sorry but that's what I think.


          I guess it's hard to see given we don't have insight on how Farrell wants us to play, but I'm finding it hard to get excited about any 23 coming out of that pool. Which shouldn't be the case, given the form of Leinster and Ulster.

          Leinster are the best club side in Europe, and it's right that they form the core of the Ireland team right now. But man for man against England and France I'm a bit underwhelmed.



          My hope is that we see Healy and Furlong back to their best with Killer keeping up his progress.

          That we see a hooker emerge from this generation who can actually take on the mantle.

          That the locks other than Ryan actually deliver. We've been waiting an age for Henderson to do what he can do consistently, and Dillane even more so.

          We have tremendous back row competition. Let's hope we can find the right combination there. Still wish Leavy was back in the frame.

          I want to see Cooney tear things up, and I hope he gets the chance. Maybe he can get Sexton back on the front foot.

          We've had a bag of centres for three years now and still don't have a midfield. That has to be a priority - an actual Centre pairing that is more than the sum of its parts.

          We have back three and need to release them.



          That's a lot to bring together.
          "We will not walk in fear, one of another. We will not be driven into an age of unreason if we dig deep into our history and remember we are not descended from fearful men" Edward R Murrow

          "Little by little, we have been brought into the present condition in which we are able neither to tolerate the evils from which we suffer, nor the remedies we need to cure them." - Livy


          "I think that progress has been made by two flames that have always been burning in the human heart. The flame of anger against injustice and the flame of hope that you can build a better world" - Tony Benn

          Comment


            #65
            Originally posted by In Joe we trust View Post



            So what pack would you put out that would enable POM to flourish?

            Sent from my SM-G965F using Tapatalk
            A back row of 6. Stander, 7. O'Mahony, 8. Doris would have a nice combination of line-out ability, breakdown poachers and ball-carriers. Taking O'Mahony out of the team, gets rid of your best breakdown poacher and offensive line-out jumper.

            Comment


              #66
              Originally posted by Daithi View Post
              THis 6 Ns imho

              England to win it
              Wales likely runners up
              France likely 3rd
              Ireland likely 4th (maybe 3rd)
              Scotland
              Italy

              So Ireland to beat Scotland, close v Wales at home , but I think Wales are more likely to win, losing away in Twickers, up against it in Paris and win easily v Italy at home.

              Sexton is likely to be a poor one season captain in another poor 6Ns by Ireland . Sorry but that's what I think.
              Well sure if jvg needs 3 years so does Farrell.

              Comment


                #67
                So, take the all conquering Leinster team as a starting point, who, other than Cooney, and maybe Addison has a case for being substantially better than the incumbent. That’s your starting Irish team, in great form and loads of cohesion and knowledge of each other’s play, media etc will be thrilled. The only other issues are covering for Lowe and the bench. Is anything else just tokenism?

                Comment


                  #68
                  Originally posted by jagawayagain View Post
                  So, take the all conquering Leinster team as a starting point, who, other than Cooney, and maybe Addison has a case for being substantially better than the incumbent. That’s your starting Irish team, in great form and loads of cohesion and knowledge of each other’s play, media etc will be thrilled. The only other issues are covering for Lowe and the bench. Is anything else just tokenism?
                  Maybe not substantially better, but there's a serious argument to be made that Dave Kilcoyne is now a better player than Healy. Has been far more impactful in his carries/tackles over the last 12 months.

                  For me, McCloskey is a substantially better player than Henshaw. Henshaw effectively plays the same game as McCloskey, but with less power, offloading ability, kicking ability and game intelligence.

                  I think there are also arguments to be made about Stockdale vs Dave Kearney and Toner vs Henderson.

                  Comment


                    #69
                    Originally posted by In Joe we trust View Post



                    So which outhalf available to Ireland for the 6Nations is a better player than Sexton (or even close to him)?

                    Burns at Ulster
                    Ross Byrne at Leinster
                    Jack Carthy at Connaught
                    JJ at Munster

                    Sent from my SM-G965F using Tapatalk
                    Sexton isn't anywhere, you're presuming an ageing player to a standard he hasn't performed anywhere near in 2 years and criticising the alternatives for not reaching the levels of his historical prime. This is the Rory Best problem all over again.
                    When Sexton is finally rid of it'll be with relief, not sorrow as unfortunately seems to be the way with many of the older stalwarts.

                    Comment


                      #70


                      Originally posted by Dowlinz View Post

                      Sexton isn't anywhere, you're presuming an ageing player to a standard he hasn't performed anywhere near in 2 years and criticising the alternatives for not reaching the levels of his historical prime. This is the Rory Best problem all over again.
                      When Sexton is finally rid of it'll be with relief, not sorrow as unfortunately seems to be the way with many of the older stalwarts.
                      Whilst he may not be as good as he was in 2018 (14 months ago) he was still the 10 for the Pro14 champions and European finalists and is first choice for one of the top 2/3 teams in Europe and you think he isn't the best 10 in Ireland.

                      Sent from my SM-G965F using Tapatalk

                      Comment


                        #71
                        A lot of nostalgia going around here, if we are picking on form POM is out.

                        Comment


                          #72
                          Originally posted by In Joe we trust View Post



                          Whilst he may not be as good as he was in 2018 (14 months ago) he was still the 10 for the Pro14 champions and European finalists and is first choice for one of the top 2/3 teams in Europe and you think he isn't the best 10 in Ireland.

                          Sent from my SM-G965F using Tapatalk
                          First choice? He makes an occasional cameo every few months, he hasn't even played in the Pro 14 this season.

                          Comment


                            #73
                            A little surprised by Scannell as I thought he would be in the match 23 and maybe Ruddock and McCloskey. But I think it is positive that Farrell has put his own stamp on it. Probably the end for quite a few players like Kearney, Cronin etc. Also the Toner / Kleyn reversal is a positive for me. Joe favourites like J Murphy might find it hard to get back in.

                            I reckon the captaincy is a 1 year thing until probably J Ryan will get it. "The reign between reigns" - appoint a safe continuity option short term. I guess POM might have been the other option but he is under real pressure for his starting spot. Sexton if fit (big if) is first choice 10 no question.

                            If he picks one of Deegan or Doris in the back-row with VDeF and maybe Stander that means quick ball and off-loading. I'd still have Murray at 9 with Cooney on the bench. I'm pretty excited.

                            Comment


                              #74

                              “It’s a tremendous group,” said Farrell of his squad. “It’s dynamic, it’s powerful, it’s aggressive, it’s got a lot of skill, it’s got a lot of speed in there as well and we want to see all of those.”


                              Dynamic, powerful, aggressive, speed, skill.
                              It looks like he has a clear picture of what he wants to do. Looks like he wants to speed up the way the team plays.


                              Ruddock and Scannell are not the fastest players so might not suit his gameplan.

                              Comment


                                #75
                                I actually agree with the basic idea that when selecting your squad you start with the Leinster 23 and then add/or substitute from the Ulster & Munster , & finally connaught teams top make up your squad.

                                You also of course take account of previous international form, most especially the past 18 months say, as that indicates a player's potential ability at the higher level for you.

                                Finally of course you allow for Munster playing the likes of Sarries & Racing who are really top class sides full of internationals.

                                On that basis imho Earl's, Conway, Murray, Stander, POM, N Scannell & Kilcoyne are straight into any international squad for me, Farrell also, and even after that players like J Ryan, could be good picks also.

                                People giving out about POM 's form must be watching different games to me, he was outstanding in Paris last weekend and has been by & large excellent in a losing team which ain't easy.

                                Ireland will struggle at this 6Ns imho, but I hope I'm proved wrong.

                                P.s. perhaps if they can beat the Scots, and steal a win at home against a Welsh side under a new coaching regime, Ireland can manage a half decent return, but I wouldn't be holding my breath.

                                P.p.s. the only things I'm really now interested in watching are Leinster hopefully winning in Europe, Munster trying to win their Pro14 conference (& thus earn some revenue & get a better draw for next season's champions cup), and maybe Ireland outperform way ahead of my expectations. Of those 3, I'd only be confident of the first one unfortunately...
                                Last edited by Daithi; 16th-January-2020, 13:07.
                                ____________________________________________
                                Munster were great when they were Munster.

                                alas they are just north munster now.......
                                ____________________________________________

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