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    Originally posted by In Joe we trust View Post
    Looking fwd to reading how Gatland, Jones, Hansen etc had the wrong plan but the Rassie plan implemented by Munster would have won the RWC
    Miaow - in Rassie we trust
    "There are a lot of points that we’ve left behind and this is with a young group. That probably tells you what they’re capable of and that they’re a very good side.

    Probably next year or the year after next they will take some stopping"

    Anthony Foley, May 2016. Axel RIP

    Comment


      Originally posted by In Joe we trust View Post
      Looking fwd to reading how Gatland, Jones, Hansen etc had the wrong plan but the Rassie plan implemented by Munster would have won the RWC
      Clearly Eddie Jones and Owen Farrell have now been found out and need to step aside and admit everything that they did wrong
      Only fools and drunks argue over everything. If you don’t have a hangover the next day you’re not the drunk...

      Comment


        Originally posted by Oldschoolsocks View Post

        Clearly Eddie Jones and Owen Farrell have now been found out and need to step aside and admit everything that they did wrong
        You two seem to be having great craic, but I’m not sure what about.

        Jones and Rassie showed you can get to a RWC final, and even win it, with an attritional carrying game backed up by rock solid defence and good tactical kicking...but only if you have some freakishly huge men.

        Comment


          Originally posted by Munsterboy View Post

          You two seem to be having great craic, but I’m not sure what about.

          Jones and Rassie showed you can get to a RWC final, and even win it, with an attritional carrying game backed up by rock solid defence and good tactical kicking...but only if you have some freakishly huge men.
          why are you bringing Rassie into the conversation, he's a total success...

          EDIT: and I didn't even mention Felix Jones - ex of my parish - well done both
          Only fools and drunks argue over everything. If you don’t have a hangover the next day you’re not the drunk...

          Comment


            Originally posted by Waterfordlad View Post

            Miaow - in Rassie we trust
            Did more than the leader ever did
            I am the million man.

            Comment


              Originally posted by Oldschoolsocks View Post

              why are you bringing Rassie into the conversation, he's a total success...

              EDIT: and I didn't even mention Felix Jones - ex of my parish - well done both
              Bringing Rassie into it for the purposes of comparison with Jones, who, much as I dislike him, also did a fine job with England by adopting a similar game plan.

              Why so defensive?

              Comment


                Originally posted by Munsterboy View Post

                Bringing Rassie into it for the purposes of comparison with Jones, who, much as I dislike him, also did a fine job with England by adopting a similar game plan.

                Why so defensive?
                I’m not in the slightest defensive - you might be projecting a bit there.

                but your comment didn’t look like a comparison, it looked like you thought Eddie Jones had a successful World Cup which is only partly true. He peaked a game too soon, but hey maybe that’s forgivable??
                Only fools and drunks argue over everything. If you don’t have a hangover the next day you’re not the drunk...

                Comment


                  Is it time to ditch the central contracts in favour of the IRFU subsidizing the provinces directly and letting the provinces decide who to pay what? Then players salaries could be topped up with international appearance bonuses. At least it would make it easier to pick the form players.

                  Comment


                    Originally posted by desert man View Post
                    Is it time to ditch the central contracts in favour of the IRFU subsidizing the provinces directly and letting the provinces decide who to pay what? Then players salaries could be topped up with international appearance bonuses. At least it would make it easier to pick the form players.
                    Might help bring an end to the team of us bolacodogy
                    Gwan Joe!!

                    Comment


                      Originally posted by desert man View Post
                      Is it time to ditch the central contracts in favour of the IRFU subsidizing the provinces directly and letting the provinces decide who to pay what? Then players salaries could be topped up with international appearance bonuses. At least it would make it easier to pick the form players.
                      +1

                      might be time to look at a National playing philosophy/style - this is how we want to be playing in 2 or 3 years time, here’s your budget and framework. The infrastructure is in place at least in Munster and Leinster. The risk as always is will fans continue to show up if there’s a downturn in results during the transition from “this is how we win now” to “this is how we’re going to win in the future”.
                      Only fools and drunks argue over everything. If you don’t have a hangover the next day you’re not the drunk...

                      Comment


                        Originally posted by Oldschoolsocks View Post

                        I’m not in the slightest defensive - you might be projecting a bit there.

                        but your comment didn’t look like a comparison, it looked like you thought Eddie Jones had a successful World Cup which is only partly true. He peaked a game too soon, but hey maybe that’s forgivable??
                        Making a final is pretty successful IMO. Peaked a game too soon, or maybe met the one team with the physical firepower to negate their game plan, but beating the favourites to get to a final was not under-performance. Crucially, I don’t think there was much more he could have gotten out of the players at his disposal.

                        Comment


                          Originally posted by Munsterboy View Post

                          Making a final is pretty successful IMO. Peaked a game too soon, or maybe met the one team with the physical firepower to negate their game plan, but beating the favourites to get to a final was not under-performance. Crucially, I don’t think there was much more he could have gotten out of the players at his disposal.
                          I don’t remotely think it was a matter of peaking too early- losing Sinkler early gave SA an advantage (which they might have gained anyway) and they exploited that ruthlessly, but not only by playing bush rugby, but also systematically picking away at weakness they had spotted.

                          I think it’s a mixed bag for Jones. making a final is a success, but more importantly he introduced many young players who went in to more than justify selection. They have the basis of a young winning squad rich in experience. (Whereas we need major surgery). On the other hand, it was predictable SA would attack fiercely up front. What was the plan for playing them is they didn’t win that battle- were Ford and Farrell the right pairing for that game, when it was possible they would have less ball than in earlier games? I would also question why, given the huge playing resources which produced Corry etc etc, was the solution to the prop back up to bring a guy out of retirement, when his club form was patchy (and penalty count high)? Those to me seem quite serious black marks against Jones.

                          Comment


                            Originally posted by desert man View Post
                            Is it time to ditch the central contracts in favour of the IRFU subsidizing the provinces directly and letting the provinces decide who to pay what? Then players salaries could be topped up with international appearance bonuses. At least it would make it easier to pick the form players.

                            The contracting itself, given the relationship between Branch and Union, is a bit of a technicality I think. The question would be whether the Union retains control of the game time exposure of players playing for Ireland.

                            Central Contracts make sense in asserting the primacy of the interests of the national team, and avoiding the sort of club vs country rows seen in England.

                            But it might be possible to develop an alternative structure that retains that balance. The number of central contracts has been steadily eroded over the last few years.

                            The other question that would come is that in a "funding follows star players" model, the IRFU could end up with big discrepancies in provincial budgets. You're also reliant on the Provincial set ups to deliver the deals that Nucifora has secured for the last few years. Are the skills there at that level to manage the process of retaining the sort of players that big European clubs are competing for?

                            It probably warrants tweaking, but the central contract system isn't bad. Most national coaches would take it tomorrow vs their own set ups.

                            "We will not walk in fear, one of another. We will not be driven into an age of unreason if we dig deep into our history and remember we are not descended from fearful men" Edward R Murrow

                            "Little by little, we have been brought into the present condition in which we are able neither to tolerate the evils from which we suffer, nor the remedies we need to cure them." - Livy


                            "I think that progress has been made by two flames that have always been burning in the human heart. The flame of anger against injustice and the flame of hope that you can build a better world" - Tony Benn

                            Comment


                              Originally posted by Balla Boy View Post


                              The contracting itself, given the relationship between Branch and Union, is a bit of a technicality I think. The question would be whether the Union retains control of the game time exposure of players playing for Ireland.

                              Central Contracts make sense in asserting the primacy of the interests of the national team, and avoiding the sort of club vs country rows seen in England.

                              But it might be possible to develop an alternative structure that retains that balance. The number of central contracts has been steadily eroded over the last few years.

                              The other question that would come is that in a "funding follows star players" model, the IRFU could end up with big discrepancies in provincial budgets. You're also reliant on the Provincial set ups to deliver the deals that Nucifora has secured for the last few years. Are the skills there at that level to manage the process of retaining the sort of players that big European clubs are competing for?

                              It probably warrants tweaking, but the central contract system isn't bad. Most national coaches would take it tomorrow vs their own set ups.
                              I think the aspect of central contracts that bothers most of it is the imbalance across provinces in number of contracts and the tendency to extend these further into the future than seems reasonable on the basis of form. To
                              me, given how Leinster have dominated pro 14 and Hcup, it is inevitable they would have the lions share of the contracts, we can argue cause and effect here, but central funding enables player retention and game time management, the money also enables boosting squad numbers to cope with non availability. The problem, for me, is that the system we have has a tendency to get top heavy/blocked, because players rarely lose central contracts, and the expectation that players will remain centrally contracted makes rewarding young players more difficult. I would keep central contracts, but I’d like to see the system change to having annual central contracts, for younger and older players, the latter more lucrative.

                              Comment


                                Originally posted by jagawayagain View Post

                                I think the aspect of central contracts that bothers most of it is the imbalance across provinces in number of contracts and the tendency to extend these further into the future than seems reasonable on the basis of form. To
                                me, given how Leinster have dominated pro 14 and Hcup, it is inevitable they would have the lions share of the contracts, we can argue cause and effect here, but central funding enables player retention and game time management, the money also enables boosting squad numbers to cope with non availability. The problem, for me, is that the system we have has a tendency to get top heavy/blocked, because players rarely lose central contracts, and the expectation that players will remain centrally contracted makes rewarding young players more difficult. I would keep central contracts, but I’d like to see the system change to having annual central contracts, for younger and older players, the latter more lucrative.
                                It would only be in the minority of cases, but would that structure give enough security to someone like Murray by the time they sign their final contract?

                                If we're looking at a guy of say 29/30 with one more big 4 year deal in him, is that going to cut it?
                                "We will not walk in fear, one of another. We will not be driven into an age of unreason if we dig deep into our history and remember we are not descended from fearful men" Edward R Murrow

                                "Little by little, we have been brought into the present condition in which we are able neither to tolerate the evils from which we suffer, nor the remedies we need to cure them." - Livy


                                "I think that progress has been made by two flames that have always been burning in the human heart. The flame of anger against injustice and the flame of hope that you can build a better world" - Tony Benn

                                Comment

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