So what happens next?

[ormond lad]

https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/rug...move-1.4060634

As the quality of the Irish national team has decreased, it seems like there has been an equal exponential decay in the quality of Irish rugby journalism. Thank god for Murry Kinsella, Neil Treacy and Cian Tracey. Every other journalist seems to be either: (A) Coming out with controversial "hot-takes" as to why Ireland lost, for the sake of coming out with controversial "hot-takes" as to why Ireland lost, (B) Blaming Ireland's form on the amount of players picked from provinces they don't support or (C) Claiming that all of Ireland's selection decisions were spot on and that they could have done no more at the world cup.

This a fairly astonishing article from Thornley. I wouldn't mind if the premise of the article was that Isa Nacewa's opinion was wrong, but if comes across to me more as "How dare Isa Nacewa speak openly and candidly, when asked for his opinion".

would agree with you about poor journalism standards but cian tracey/Neil treacy are not that good. I think thornley is normally ok but that article is quite poor!

[Mumhain]

Ringrose now looks to me less than the player he was- and I think that’s the formulaic approach that became the mantra at camp Joe- far too soon to give up on him, on either of them - camp Farrell will be interesting, Catt May make a huge difference to players like Ringrose.

I agree and I'm not giving up on them completely. As of right now, I believe there are better options in better form, but if Ringrose and Henshaw are in better form than the other centres, then I have no problem with them getting selected again. For me, the issue with them wasn't just the world cup or camp Joe. In my opinion, their club form wasn't particularly good (especially Ringrose) and it certainly didn't warrant the first choice centre status, they seemed to have. Compare Chris Farrell's performances vs Saracens against Ringrose's performance in the champions cup final. Henshaw wasn't in bad form(before the injury), but McCloskey was in far better form. Stuart McCloskey was in the pro 14 team of the year and was probably the best player on the pitch in the Leinster vs Ulster quarter final. They were kept in the Ireland starting team based on what they had done before. As much as I would have preferred the team to be picked on form, I could see the logic behind it. Now there is no real reason to pick them unless they are playing better rugby than the rest. As others have said, there should be a clean slate for everybody now.

[Finnegan79]

Dont think thats certain.....there has always been flexibility and who knows what Farrell thinks. I'd say its unlikely he will get back in but if he starts tearing up trees in France he would surely be considered.

The IRFU will never voluntarily retract that policy; too many guys would chase the english, french, and now japanese money earlier in their careers. The provinces would suffer greatly from player drain which leads to less tickets sold, eyeballs on tv sets, less money coming in, etc.

Had 2018 gone poorly, the clearing of the dead wood may have begun in time for the WC; the tactics may have been altered to include a bit more expansive play and Schmidt may have realized that micromanaging every last detail wasn't going to cut it, etc. It went well, they looked to be a contender, but like you see in boxing, they "got old" overnight. November to March isn't that long, but they'd been well beaten by both England and Wales, mainly due to the gameplan not functioning and Schmidt having zero solutions as to how to stop the decline.. The Irish guys didn't suddenly become poor players, and the English and Welsh ones, didn't become a great deal better than they already were in that time frame. Hansen looked at his 2018, playing SA pretty much even, barely escaping Twickenham, then losing to Ireland and realized that some things had to change if they were going to win the WC. He made the necessary changes and they are clear favorites despite this being the "most open" WC in recent memory.

Schmidt stuck with what and who had worked even after it was clear that it wasn't really working anymore. That to me is the worst part of the whole mess. Losing is tough to swallow, but I think many people would have found it easier to do so had they at least tried to change things up a good bit after the 6N

[MunsterTel]

https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/rug...move-1.4060634

As the quality of the Irish national team has decreased, it seems like there has been an equal exponential decay in the quality of Irish rugby journalism. Thank god for Murry Kinsella, Neil Treacy and Cian Tracey. Every other journalist seems to be either: (A) Coming out with controversial "hot-takes" as to why Ireland lost, for the sake of coming out with controversial "hot-takes" as to why Ireland lost, (B) Blaming Ireland's form on the amount of players picked from provinces they don't support or (C) Claiming that all of Ireland's selection decisions were spot on and that they could have done no more at the world cup.

This a fairly astonishing article from Thornley. I wouldn't mind if the premise of the article was that Isa Nacewa's opinion was wrong, but if comes across to me more as "How dare Isa Nacewa speak openly and candidly, when asked for his opinion".

Gerry, I don't wanna lose my access to the Irish set-up' Thornley?

[ormond lad]

We’ve a good pack and plenty of good younger forwards coming through.

Key is how much more we can get out of Murray and how we develop our 10/12/13 axis, and 15 too.

If we keep picking a lad as limited as Henshaw at 12 we’ll go nowhere. Farrell is an option - big lad with surprisingly good hands - and McCloskey is similar. Put a second playmaker at 13 or 15 and you’ve got a bit more variety.

such shame henshaw has been turned into such a poor Bosh it up player. When he came through at connacht further out at 13/15 he was so much better. I wonder how much he could improve under a different game plan under Farrell.
Murray really needs to up his game. So horrid seeing him stroll around so many games and not show why hes considered or was considered one of best 9s.

[The Last Stand]

such shame henshaw has been turned into such a poor Bosh it up player. When he came through at connacht further out at 13/15 he was so much better. I wonder how much he could improve under a different game plan under Farrell.
Murray really needs to up his game. So horrid seeing him stroll around so many games and not show why hes considered or was considered one of best 9s.

In my opinion the last time I thought Murray had a great game for Munster was the quarter final against Toulon in 2018 - and that was his very smart try on their scrum. He has had good moments since but the standard has dropped. No doubt the injury has been a problem but I also think his natural instincts have been coached out of him?

[The Last Stand]

Gerry, I don't wanna lose my access to the Irish set-up' Thornley?

Perhaps and an article where he is hedging his bets. Not ignoring something but questioning whether it was too harsh.

I felt that certain commentators (I will not give them journalist status) were fanboys for a long time and never took a critical line until they saw which way the wind was blowing and then decided to get some kicks in.

[Munsterboy]

such shame henshaw has been turned into such a poor Bosh it up player. When he came through at connacht further out at 13/15 he was so much better. I wonder how much he could improve under a different game plan under Farrell.
Murray really needs to up his game. So horrid seeing him stroll around so many games and not show why hes considered or was considered one of best 9s.

Murray is an entirely different player when we’re not trucking it up all day and taking an age to recycle. Munster look like they’ll be playing quite a different game this year so we’ll see how that goes.

[rathbaner]

Like your optimism- but unless Zeebs comes back he won’t be considered.

I've written to him on Twitter telling him to come home, that his country needs him, In the Name of God, man, what more can I do?

[Waterfordlad]

.


Just start again, forget everything that's gone before. Start from zero.

Did your spell checker turn a B into an R?

[Finnegan79]

Murray is an entirely different player when we’re not trucking it up all day and taking an age to recycle. Munster look like they’ll be playing quite a different game this year so we’ll see how that goes.

yes and no...too much begging for penalties which slows things down even when on the front foot...when mathewson came on last year, the tempo picked up b/c he gets after the ball...even tonight, when casey came on, if Osprey players were in his way, he got to the ball and got on with it, even if he had to hop over them to do so. Murray would have seen these situations, pointed at the guy, flailed about and taken an age to get the ball away. Let's see what Larkham (hopefully Catt as well) can do with him in a faster paced attack where box kicking isn't the main thing for the 9 and see what happens. If he still blows hot and cold, Ireland and Munster will know to move on to younger guys who move the ball more quickly.

[In Joe we trust]

So I guess Farrell is going to have to pick which style of rugby we're going to play -

The NZ style - Extremely skilled open style but struggle against hugely physical teams
The English style - Very physical ball carriers, very physical defence
The SA style - Very physical 10 man rugby
The Welsh style - Defensive, low scoring

[Munsterboy]

So I guess Farrell is going to have to pick which style of rugby we're going to play -

The NZ style - Extremely skilled open style but struggle against hugely physical teams
The English style - Very physical ball carriers, very physical defence
The SA style - Very physical 10 man rugby
The Welsh style - Defensive, low scoring

You’re oversimplifying where England are concerned. They have an excellent tactical kicking game and a very good wide game too, especially when they play Ford and Farrell together. Far more than just big carriers and tacklers.

Ireland are similar in style to SA at the moment, one dimensional but not as big.

We need to expand our game, and vary our selection, so we have a few strings to our bow. Don’t have to choose any one of the limited styles you’ve set out.

[JN.Allezdax.com]

Nobody for a try with Tom Farrell at center?

[Munsterboy]

Nobody for a try with Tom Farrell at center?

Good player is Farrell. Think he was around the Ireland squad a bit last season. Definitely a guy to be looked at.