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    #31
    Dunno what the future holds but, I'm looking forward to not hearing the following,

    The word Pragmatist.

    Credit in the bank.

    If i know Joe, no stone will be left unturned.

    Good under the high ball(As though it mitigates being sh*te at other things & also as if nobody else around the world can catch a ball).

    The system.

    Players being brought in because they know 'The system'.

    Ruck resourcing.

    People talking about how Joe will be ripping you a new one on Monday morning for your crayon going outside the lines again and again and AGAIN.


    To all the Joepologists, Robo-Rugby is dead.

    The future is bright!


    The whole world cries out peace, freedom and a few less fat bastards eating all the pie.

    Comment


      #32
      Originally posted by Balla Boy View Post

      Worth having a look at this:

      https://www.rugbypass.com/news/analy...re-line-speed/

      Break down of the new pod system the ABs introduced this year. Moving Barrett to 15 is the most visible change, but Ardie Savea is in, Reece and Bridge in, Ioane dropped, Smith benched.


      We don't have the NZ production line, without a doubt. But this shows, I think, what a success driven culture in a national set up looks like.


      In any organisation, in any field, the best way of planning for the future is not to try to predict what will happen, but to build a culture that's committed to and capable of innovation and transformation whenever its needed, and never stops looking for it.

      That should be the plan.
      That's a good article - fair play to NZ for doing that - and it's no consolation to Ireland that it was the defeat to us last year that prompted it.

      Going back to the World Cup, I just don't believe a country with our resources can just turn up every four years with whatever squad we happen to have and expect to progress to the semi-finals. I accept that some people value the 6N as of more importance, but against that the constant failure to get past the QF is in danger of becoming a millstone, and the only way we'll overcome it is to plan for it.

      We've rightfully moved on from Triple Crowns and we've also broken our NZ duck, but we need to have a higher target. Just my view.
      "I don't believe in fairytales," O'Connell once told me, "even though it feels like I've been lucky enough to live through a few. However it ends, I'll feel lucky."
      Donald McRae, Guardian Rugby, October 2015

      Comment


        #33
        I'm hoping we see a philosophy change towards empowering players more to make their own decisions rather than following scripted gameplans regardless of what's happening in front of players. Joe always claimed that players had license to alter things as they saw though Zebo's comments suggested players were fearful to use their instincts as they were singled out and humiliated in video sessions if it didn't work. That sort of environment needs to change.

        In terms of a succession plan we need to look to all successful teams and aim to build a winning culture rather than fixate on a target 4 years from now while thinking short term punishment is somehow contributing to long term success.

        Comment


          #34
          I was talking to a guy earlier today who told me U10s were playing rugby on a mini pitch sub divided into grids.

          The coaching straight jacket starts early it seems.
          Yorn desh born, der ritt de gitt der gue,
          Orn desh, dee born desh, de umn bork! bork! bork!

          Comment


            #35
            Originally posted by Balla Boy View Post

            Murray is the best 9 available to Ireland by a country mile, whatever the game plan. He's at an entirely different level to any of the back ups.
            No he isn't and hasn't been for some time. The box kick has been neutered as a consistent weapon; after that, I'd rather have a guy running, not trotting, up to the ruck looking to get the damn ball, not wave his arms about begging for penalties and playing as slowly as he possibly can before box kicking or throwing a slow pass to a static carrier.. Every time Mathewson hit the pitch the tempo picked up b/c he gets in, gets the ball, and gets it away far quicker than Murray does. Cooney, Marmion, and Blade are all faster at the ruck. Honestly, if some French team came calling looking to sign him as a big name, I'd be almost happy at this point to see him go b/c he is getting selected on reputation for Munster and Ireland and it is costing dearly.

            Comment


              #36
              Originally posted by Finnegan79 View Post

              No he isn't and hasn't been for some time. The box kick has been neutered as a consistent weapon; after that, I'd rather have a guy running, not trotting, up to the ruck looking to get the damn ball, not wave his arms about begging for penalties and playing as slowly as he possibly can before box kicking or throwing a slow pass to a static carrier.. Every time Mathewson hit the pitch the tempo picked up b/c he gets in, gets the ball, and gets it away far quicker than Murray does. Cooney, Marmion, and Blade are all faster at the ruck. Honestly, if some French team came calling looking to sign him as a big name, I'd be almost happy at this point to see him go b/c he is getting selected on reputation for Munster and Ireland and it is costing dearly.
              Disagree. An in form Murray would start in most teams in Europe, for whatever reason we have recently only seen glimpses of this, but I think he had a good World Cup (compare his performance with McGrath), and look forward to his coming back. That said, in such a pivotal position, we need to have guys pushing him and ready to step up- both for Munster and Ireland.

              Comment


                #37
                Originally posted by jagawayagain View Post

                Disagree. An in form Murray would start in most teams in Europe, for whatever reason we have recently only seen glimpses of this, but I think he had a good World Cup (compare his performance with McGrath), and look forward to his coming back. That said, in such a pivotal position, we need to have guys pushing him and ready to step up- both for Munster and Ireland.
                To be honest being better than McGrath isn't exactly a major achievement. Hopefully now that JGP is Irish qualified he'll take over as the No1 scrumhalf at Leinster and bring real pace to our game.

                Sent from my SM-G965F using Tapatalk

                Comment


                  #38
                  Originally posted by In Joe we trust View Post
                  To be honest being better than McGrath isn't exactly a major achievement. Hopefully now that JGP is Irish qualified he'll take over as the No1 scrumhalf at Leinster and bring real pace to our game.

                  Sent from my SM-G965F using Tapatalk
                  As you’re doing honesty, can you say why McGrath was selected ahead of Marmion or Cooney? That aside JGP has always to me looked the strongest Leinster has, and look forward to him establishing himself at #1, and getting a crack at Ireland- in terms of the latter, also look forward to seeing Lowe in green.

                  Comment


                    #39
                    Originally posted by Finnegan79 View Post

                    No he isn't and hasn't been for some time. The box kick has been neutered as a consistent weapon; after that, I'd rather have a guy running, not trotting, up to the ruck looking to get the damn ball, not wave his arms about begging for penalties and playing as slowly as he possibly can before box kicking or throwing a slow pass to a static carrier.. Every time Mathewson hit the pitch the tempo picked up b/c he gets in, gets the ball, and gets it away far quicker than Murray does. Cooney, Marmion, and Blade are all faster at the ruck. Honestly, if some French team came calling looking to sign him as a big name, I'd be almost happy at this point to see him go b/c he is getting selected on reputation for Munster and Ireland and it is costing dearly.
                    I don't see how we can reasonably maintain that Murray is trotting around, delivering slow service etc etc and still getting selected while pretending that he's doing anything other than what he's been instructed to do.

                    That his provincial and national coaches are watching him and thinking "I wish he'd play faster. Still, I'll keep picking him".

                    It just doesn't stand to reason at all for me. He's playing to a game plan. If that changes, I'm sure he'll execute the new one too.

                    "We will not walk in fear, one of another. We will not be driven into an age of unreason if we dig deep into our history and remember we are not descended from fearful men" Edward R Murrow

                    "Little by little, we have been brought into the present condition in which we are able neither to tolerate the evils from which we suffer, nor the remedies we need to cure them." - Livy


                    "I think that progress has been made by two flames that have always been burning in the human heart. The flame of anger against injustice and the flame of hope that you can build a better world" - Tony Benn

                    Comment


                      #40
                      Originally posted by blackwarrior View Post

                      That's a good article - fair play to NZ for doing that - and it's no consolation to Ireland that it was the defeat to us last year that prompted it.

                      Going back to the World Cup, I just don't believe a country with our resources can just turn up every four years with whatever squad we happen to have and expect to progress to the semi-finals. I accept that some people value the 6N as of more importance, but against that the constant failure to get past the QF is in danger of becoming a millstone, and the only way we'll overcome it is to plan for it.

                      We've rightfully moved on from Triple Crowns and we've also broken our NZ duck, but we need to have a higher target. Just my view.


                      What would that look like for you? We both agree on the aim, and the need to develop a system that will achieve more in World Cups. My contention is that that's about delivering year on year standards, driving talent to it's highest level wherever possible and not letting anyone sit on reputation.

                      The only real bone of contention I can imagine is that, for instance, we drop Sexton now since he won't make the next world cup, and let the other guys at it. But if Sexton is our best 10, that does a disservice to whatever midfield combinations we're trying to develop.

                      The implications of a four year plan for me would be that Sexton, Earls, Aki, Kearney, Murray, Cronin, Healy, Kilcoyne are gone with question marks over POM and Stander.


                      "We will not walk in fear, one of another. We will not be driven into an age of unreason if we dig deep into our history and remember we are not descended from fearful men" Edward R Murrow

                      "Little by little, we have been brought into the present condition in which we are able neither to tolerate the evils from which we suffer, nor the remedies we need to cure them." - Livy


                      "I think that progress has been made by two flames that have always been burning in the human heart. The flame of anger against injustice and the flame of hope that you can build a better world" - Tony Benn

                      Comment


                        #41
                        Originally posted by jagawayagain View Post

                        As you’re doing honesty, can you say why McGrath was selected ahead of Marmion or Cooney? That aside JGP has always to me looked the strongest Leinster has, and look forward to him establishing himself at #1, and getting a crack at Ireland- in terms of the latter, also look forward to seeing Lowe in green.
                        I've no idea why he got picked to be honest ahead of Marmion. I don't really rate Cooney that highly myself but I also don't rate McGrath at all.

                        Comment


                          #42
                          Originally posted by Balla Boy View Post

                          I don't see how we can reasonably maintain that Murray is trotting around, delivering slow service etc etc and still getting selected while pretending that he's doing anything other than what he's been instructed to do.

                          That his provincial and national coaches are watching him and thinking "I wish he'd play faster. Still, I'll keep picking him".

                          It just doesn't stand to reason at all for me. He's playing to a game plan. If that changes, I'm sure he'll execute the new one too.
                          Is the question whether the game plan (at provincial/national level) is dictated by the players availability or is it the game plan being forced on by coaches which don't suit the players?

                          Comment


                            #43
                            Originally posted by Balla Boy View Post



                            Until recent renewals, extensions or departures, we had Schmidt, Best, O’Brien, McGrath, Murray, Earle, Kearney, Henshaw, Sexton and Healy all contracted to 2019.

                            Bar Toner, who expires in 20, all the other central contracts are to the mid point of the next in 21 - Henderson, Stander, O’Mahony, Furlong.

                            Farrell’s contract is to 2023.

                            Players will play their way in and out, but that four year cycle is the foundation of the planning.
                            So are all centrally contracts are up in 2019? And who is up in 2020. Earls is 2021 and Kearney is up in June 2019 I think

                            Comment


                              #44
                              Originally posted by In Joe we trust View Post

                              Is the question whether the game plan (at provincial/national level) is dictated by the players availability or is it the game plan being forced on by coaches which don't suit the players?
                              I think Joe's gameplan/system is based on the restricted time he has with the Irish players. If you look at Joe at Leinster, he deployed a much more expansive gameplan, and style of play, because he had the time week in week out to bed in a more fluid way of playing. When it came to the national team, he knew he wouldn't have the time to turn the Irish team into the ABs, so he went to the opposite end of the spectrum with a philosophy around rote-learning "the System". Very effective until it's not, and then when it's not effective in a game, it's the equivalent of none of the exam questions you studied for coming up on the paper... you're fuqed.

                              Comment


                                #45
                                Originally posted by Sketchy View Post

                                I think Joe's gameplan/system is based on the restricted time he has with the Irish players. If you look at Joe at Leinster, he deployed a much more expansive gameplan, and style of play, because he had the time week in week out to bed in a more fluid way of playing. When it came to the national team, he knew he wouldn't have the time to turn the Irish team into the ABs, so he went to the opposite end of the spectrum with a philosophy around rote-learning "the System". Very effective until it's not, and then when it's not effective in a game, it's the equivalent of none of the exam questions you studied for coming up on the paper... you're fuqed.
                                I can't find the quote, but I believe O'Driscoll said Schmidt started conservative at Leinster until the senior players tried to tell him that it 'wasn't the leinster way' and they wanted to play more expansive rugby. He responded by telling them first they had to prove they were able, and apparently they eventually did.

                                I guess they didn't prove they were able at international level . . . :-(

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