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    Originally posted by jagawayagain View Post

    A bit harsh on POM, it is more than the odd performance,
    lineout work and odd vital turnover- I suspect you’d fine it’s a line out turnover or more per game, plus one or more turnovers in play, but that said I agree that the lack of carrying is a weakness, and that his best is probably behind him.
    POM is not a big carrying 6, but that doesn’t mean he’s not hugely valuable. (It’s amusing to hear the same Leinster lads who made excuses for a non-carrying 8 for a decade now complaining about POM btw.)

    The back row is, as always, about balance. I think Munster have a nice mix with POM, CJ and TOD, plus a dynamic lock like Beirne or Fineen. It allows POM to do his thing to great effect.

    Comment


      Originally posted by Munsterboy View Post

      POM is not a big carrying 6, but that doesn’t mean he’s not hugely valuable. (It’s amusing to hear the same Leinster lads who made excuses for a non-carrying 8 for a decade now complaining about POM btw.)

      The back row is, as always, about balance. I think Munster have a nice mix with POM, CJ and TOD, plus a dynamic lock like Beirne or Fineen. It allows POM to do his thing to great effect.
      Well as a Leinster fan I'm hoping Munster keep playing with a backrow with only 1 ball carrier as it makes it far easier to beat them....

      Comment


        Originally posted by In Joe we trust View Post

        Well as a Leinster fan I'm hoping Munster keep playing with a backrow with only 1 ball carrier as it makes it far easier to beat them....
        Don’t fret INJWT- you’ll have plenty to think about by the time we play Leinster.

        Comment


          Originally posted by Munsterboy View Post

          POM is not a big carrying 6, but that doesn’t mean he’s not hugely valuable. (It’s amusing to hear the same Leinster lads who made excuses for a non-carrying 8 for a decade now complaining about POM btw.)

          The back row is, as always, about balance. I think Munster have a nice mix with POM, CJ and TOD, plus a dynamic lock like Beirne or Fineen. It allows POM to do his thing to great effect.
          I think POM has a place in Munster, and he has had great days for in green - I just think it’s behind him that’s all.

          not bothering with the blue vs red jab as it’s a waste of time here, glad I brought a smile to your face though :)
          Only fools and drunks argue over everything. If you don’t have a hangover the next day you’re not the drunk...

          Comment


            Originally posted by Munsterboy View Post

            POM is not a big carrying 6, but that doesn’t mean he’s not hugely valuable. (It’s amusing to hear the same Leinster lads who made excuses for a non-carrying 8 for a decade now complaining about POM btw.)

            The back row is, as always, about balance. I think Munster have a nice mix with POM, CJ and TOD, plus a dynamic lock like Beirne or Fineen. It allows POM to do his thing to great effect.
            Don’t get me wrong, I’m not advocating dropping him etc. just recognising some limitations. There’s always a tension between being a specialist and having the whole range of skills- in ROGs day, for example, we needed particular qualities in the back row to cover for him, while he kicked us to victory (and made a few breaks etc etc).

            Comment


              Would changing central contracts to 1 year max potentially make the system more flexible? Review at end of season to see if CC gets renewed for another 12 months
              The only difference between me and a madman is that I'm not mad.
              - Salvador Dali (1904-1989)

              Comment


                On a good day POM can be a match winner. He can make a mess of a teams lineout and cause havoc at the breakdown. He's much more appreciated by opposition fans than he is in Ireland outside Munster. He's never given any credit by some sections who will pick out one statistic out of hundreds to make their point.


                ​​​​Yesterday he was motm in my opinion. Certainly I think he was the most valuable player on the pitch with the lineout steals alone. It means our team have to make a lot less tackles and can carry for many more meters. POM won't get credited with those but his turnovers results in a big percentage increase in meters made for the other players. It's worth remembering next time people question his ball carrying. Would you prefer to face Australia with Pocock or a big ball carrier in his place?

                Comment


                  Originally posted by Upfront_1979 View Post
                  Would changing central contracts to 1 year max potentially make the system more flexible? Review at end of season to see if CC gets renewed for another 12 months
                  It would, but would instantly make them far less likely to compete with big offers from overseas. The French will be coming in with 3 and 4 year deals with guaranteed big bucks, and we'll be offering an annual review to decide your pay cheque.


                  It would work better in terms of squad management. There's no doubt that Central Contracts require us to place fairly big bets on what is an innately unpredictable quality, whatever Moneyball would tell us.

                  But there's a market requirement to compete for the talent too.
                  "We will not walk in fear, one of another. We will not be driven into an age of unreason if we dig deep into our history and remember we are not descended from fearful men" Edward R Murrow

                  "Little by little, we have been brought into the present condition in which we are able neither to tolerate the evils from which we suffer, nor the remedies we need to cure them." - Livy


                  "I think that progress has been made by two flames that have always been burning in the human heart. The flame of anger against injustice and the flame of hope that you can build a better world" - Tony Benn

                  Comment


                    Originally posted by dropkick View Post
                    On a good day POM can be a match winner. He can make a mess of a teams lineout and cause havoc at the breakdown. He's much more appreciated by opposition fans than he is in Ireland outside Munster. He's never given any credit by some sections who will pick out one statistic out of hundreds to make their point.


                    ​​​​Yesterday he was motm in my opinion. Certainly I think he was the most valuable player on the pitch with the lineout steals alone. It means our team have to make a lot less tackles and can carry for many more meters. POM won't get credited with those but his turnovers results in a big percentage increase in meters made for the other players. It's worth remembering next time people question his ball carrying. Would you prefer to face Australia with Pocock or a big ball carrier in his place?


                    His mould of 6 is always underrated. Easterby was too, and Quinlan for a long time (though I think he's a better player than both). But they're guys who disrupt, who spoil, who make life a pain in the balls for opponents.

                    It's a lot easier to see what a Jerry Collins or a Leamy - there's bodies all over the park to show you.
                    "We will not walk in fear, one of another. We will not be driven into an age of unreason if we dig deep into our history and remember we are not descended from fearful men" Edward R Murrow

                    "Little by little, we have been brought into the present condition in which we are able neither to tolerate the evils from which we suffer, nor the remedies we need to cure them." - Livy


                    "I think that progress has been made by two flames that have always been burning in the human heart. The flame of anger against injustice and the flame of hope that you can build a better world" - Tony Benn

                    Comment


                      Is Exeter's Tomás Ó Flaharta going to get a look-in under Farrell?
                      Gwan Joe!!

                      Comment


                        Originally posted by Balla Boy View Post



                        His mould of 6 is always underrated. Easterby was too, and Quinlan for a long time (though I think he's a better player than both). But they're guys who disrupt, who spoil, who make life a pain in the balls for opponents.

                        It's a lot easier to see what a Jerry Collins or a Leamy - there's bodies all over the park to show you.
                        Really liked Quinny as a player, and he didn’t deserve it to go so sour at the end when he was beginning to get the recognition he deserved. Really pleased to see the fist he has made of the media.
                        Last edited by jagawayagain; 18th-November-2019, 10:38.

                        Comment


                          Does anyone know when Farrell selects his first squad? In previous years there were autumn internationals and Christmas/New year camps - obviously no AI this year, but Do the camps go too.

                          Comment


                            Originally posted by dropkick View Post
                            On a good day POM can be a match winner. He can make a mess of a teams lineout and cause havoc at the breakdown. He's much more appreciated by opposition fans than he is in Ireland outside Munster. He's never given any credit by some sections who will pick out one statistic out of hundreds to make their point.


                            ​​​​Yesterday he was motm in my opinion. Certainly I think he was the most valuable player on the pitch with the lineout steals alone. It means our team have to make a lot less tackles and can carry for many more meters. POM won't get credited with those but his turnovers results in a big percentage increase in meters made for the other players. It's worth remembering next time people question his ball carrying. Would you prefer to face Australia with Pocock or a big ball carrier in his place?
                            So no arguments about on a good day, but those good days are getting fewer. On a bad day he can be a bit of a passenger
                            Only fools and drunks argue over everything. If you don’t have a hangover the next day you’re not the drunk...

                            Comment


                              Originally posted by dropkick View Post
                              On a good day POM can be a match winner. He can make a mess of a teams lineout and cause havoc at the breakdown. He's much more appreciated by opposition fans than he is in Ireland outside Munster. He's never given any credit by some sections who will pick out one statistic out of hundreds to make their point.


                              ​​​​Yesterday he was motm in my opinion. Certainly I think he was the most valuable player on the pitch with the lineout steals alone. It means our team have to make a lot less tackles and can carry for many more meters. POM won't get credited with those but his turnovers results in a big percentage increase in meters made for the other players. It's worth remembering next time people question his ball carrying. Would you prefer to face Australia with Pocock or a big ball carrier in his place?
                              If it is Pocock at 6 or 8 and Hooper at 7 I am happy to play Aus. If Pocock is at 7 with two other back rowers it is more worrying.

                              Comment


                                The point remains, though, that not all the back row needs to be ball carriers. That said, if one, say POM, doesn’t carry it then becomes essential that the others do (almost can carry for two) and are in form. Two problems arise from this- picking a non carrying 6 constrains who else is selected- when you do that too much in your selection you lose freedom with how you select and play- along the lines of ‘we have to pick a player like X, because we want to pick Y’. Obviously by doing do you also make the defence’s task a little easier. To me that means the you need more than marginal gains from picking a particular player who, say doesn’t carry well, or a hooker whose throwing is erratic. I am happy, at the moment, that that is the case with POM, who had a huge game on Saturday.

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