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    Originally posted by blackwarrior View Post

    I'll try to give some answers:

    What on earth would make you think Joe wouldnt start Best or Kearney in a RWC game?
    They've been found out in this season's six Nations in my view. Things have changed in that sense.


    No idea where you're dreaming this stuff up from or maybe you're joking?
    I'm a rugby supporter, like you. I've expressed some opinions, and as you've asked, I've tried to give some answers. I'm not joking - please be a bit civil

    On the anger bit, we're all angry after the disappointment. (I even posted that on Saturday). But I'm trying to look beyond the "Schmidt is never going to drop X, pick Y and never change his system" club).

    My main point really is that this has been a big setback for Schmidt but as I rate him very highly as a coach, I'd back him to go away and come back with some real answers, including personnel changes on the team. And if he can't turn it around, then maybe the team has peaked in 2018 and so be it. It was a hell of a ride until November.
    Thanks I think my point was youre right about the players but Joe wont change and go dropping Best Kearney all of a sudden and its almost worse if he does as then hes throwing in Scannell Larmour Conway etc at the last minute with minimal experience.

    \"Only Pienaar, Botha and Ferris would be in contention for a place on our first 15. That\'s a fact.\" - Tickettout\'s take on Ulster April 2011.

    Comment


      Originally posted by CP09 View Post

      Very good post, I only have one issue.... Wilkinson? Defensive frailties? He used to empty lads! - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZzOGpWbv1-o
      the contrast was between him and ROG defensively.

      Comment


        Originally posted by jagawayagain View Post
        I really do intend this to be constructive, and apologies if it seems obvious.
        many of of us here buy tickets, watch on tv, go to games , maybe all or some of these. Others have played or coached at varying levels. Some here may still do. As someone who is in a number of these categories, but now just a fan, and fairly numerate, I’m astounded when I see the minute data that is readily available to some (journalists), imagine what other data there are which are not released. If the plan says player x should do y, there will be very precise data available about how well he has done so. We might think a particular shirt number should, according to our knowledge of that position (could possibly be a bit vague/outdated?), but we can be absolutely sure a coach like Schmidt will have very specific requirements of players. These might be different it to what we, relatively knowledgeable, fans expect. This is obviously going to vary by the usual and particular requirements of a position- so I might expect my 10 to capably rceive distribute, kick etc etc, but some coaches might require a defensive role, other coaches might, for example require the flankers to cover the defensive frailties of the 10 (jusit think about ROG or Wilkinson), and the different responsibilitiesguys wearing the same shirt number might have had.

        The only point I’m trying to make here is that opinions are fine, go for it, but there probably are specific requirements of a player and data about how well they have met these, that most of us might not realise. That doesn’t mean don’t have an opinion, hey we’re all posting here because we love the games and Munster (some very welcome others excepted), but we don’t have to descend to the level of lazy, jobbing, ill-informed journos, high stool pontificators., etc.

        no player,coach, ref, etc is beyond criticism- let’s just try to make it informed. This is not a defence of POM, but if his specified role, for whatever reason, was to hit rucks, etc, let’s not hammer the guy because he did what he was told, and the day show he did that really well. If that’s a stupid way of using the player (we might think of Zebo and ruck resourcing) then, arguably, it’s a coach issue.
        I wouldnt have said Wilkinson had defensive frailties.
        But yeah would agree with that alot...

        Comment


          Originally posted by Balla Boy View Post

          There were a lot of assertions at the time that he'd permanently changed the nature of the fly half role in defence, and they'd all be destructive tacklers in the future.

          The Fly Half Trade Union have given that a collective "**** right off" :)
          Because he spent half his career injured.

          Comment


            Originally posted by ormond lad View Post
            I wouldnt have said Wilkinson had defensive frailties.
            But yeah would agree with that alot...
            Thanks, no, nor would I- ROG wasn’t great, and so others had more covering than they would have to with the likes of Wilkinson.
            Last edited by jagawayagain; 21st-March-2019, 21:29.

            Comment


              Watched the game back again out of interest.

              To be honest, it wasn't nearly as bad as it seemed live, and a combination of errors, poor decisions and very dodgy to terrible ref calls at key moments allowed Wales build up a lead that didn't really reflect the tightness of the game.

              After the try, we were on top most of the rest of half.

              Sexton seals off stupidly after they cleared their lines to let them go 10 up. From the kickoff, we end up deep in their half and Beirne is called for coming in from the side - blatantly wrong call, and pressure relieved.

              We should have taken the 3 points, that's an obvious. CJ's failed solo when we have a scrum under the posts soon after that was the most costly error in the game though. We score from there and it was a totally different game after.

              After the 30 minute mark Furlong falls for a feint to veer offside, they go 13 up. The scrum penalty for them to go 16 up just before half time was massively questionable.

              The first 10 minutes of the second half were nip and tuck. Then another awful decision against Healy let Wales make it 19-0 on the 48 minute mark. **** kick off from Sexton. Then another borderline penalty call against Stander a few minutes later for not rolling away when trapped and they're 22 up.

              Pointing at the penalties, by the way, isn't to crib, but to show we weren't that terrible. Most weren't a result of any real pressure in danger areas. There was a variety of similar calls could gave gone our way to give a few kicks and change to the complextion of things. There was also the trip which should have been yellowed. These had a big impact on the game and it's reasonable to point to it in light of the ripping the side have got.

              All hope of finishing the game with a threat was killed off in the 55 - 58 minutes when we had massive pressure on and good phases inside their 22 but Sexton ****ed the ball to nobody, Murray was held up short, and then Wales turned us over in the next play. We should have done better here with our chances more than Wales dominated us in defence. The rest of the game was irrelevant.

              ​At no point were we under any sustained pressure, certainly not in the 22, and we were the one's who looked like scoring tries, and should have on more than one occasion. We actually spread the ball well, but Sexton should have been better at picking space in behind the rush defence.

              The key way Wales disrupted us was at the breakdown, and Leavy really was a major loss than first thought. SOB was anonymos and that's it for him at this level really. The game seemed to totally pass POM by. He was totally ineffective even when in the action and there should rightly be questions over his position when everyone's fit after that one. More widely, we have a few guys who do a good tidy job when they hit rucks, but don't add much dynamism to how they do it the way Henderson, Cronin or Leavy do, or the way the subs did when brought in.

              Murray was actually grand, certainly not nearly as bad as Sexton who had a meltdown in the 20 minutes after half time. We should recognise the pace Marmion can bring in for us though and use it more. If Sexton or Carbery made the pass for Larmours try that Carthy did we'd be hearing about it all week. He's a good player that lad.
              ​​​​​​
              If this was a 3 match series, and they watched back that game this week, you'd put your house on us turning it around in game two with some tweaks. We need to add to our game, and some players aren't providing enough, but we're not in the complete doldrums.
              "There are probably more annoying things than being hectored about African development by a wealthy Irish rock star in a cowboy hat, but I can't think of one at the moment"

              Paul Theroux

              Comment


                Good chat about this stuff with Alan Quinlan and Andy Dunne, on off the ball, this morning.

                https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vyU76KyIcWE
                He was as lame as a duck. Not the metaphorical lame duck either, but a real duck that was actually lame. Maybe from stepping on a land mine or something.

                Comment


                  Originally posted by busby View Post
                  Watched the game back again out of interest.

                  To be honest, it wasn't nearly as bad as it seemed live, and a combination of errors, poor decisions and very dodgy to terrible ref calls at key moments allowed Wales build up a lead that didn't really reflect the tightness of the game.

                  After the try, we were on top most of the rest of half.

                  Sexton seals off stupidly after they cleared their lines to let them go 10 up. From the kickoff, we end up deep in their half and Beirne is called for coming in from the side - blatantly wrong call, and pressure relieved.

                  We should have taken the 3 points, that's an obvious. CJ's failed solo when we have a scrum under the posts soon after that was the most costly error in the game though. We score from there and it was a totally different game after.

                  After the 30 minute mark Furlong falls for a feint to veer offside, they go 13 up. The scrum penalty for them to go 16 up just before half time was massively questionable.

                  The first 10 minutes of the second half were nip and tuck. Then another awful decision against Healy let Wales make it 19-0 on the 48 minute mark. **** kick off from Sexton. Then another borderline penalty call against Stander a few minutes later for not rolling away when trapped and they're 22 up.

                  Pointing at the penalties, by the way, isn't to crib, but to show we weren't that terrible. Most weren't a result of any real pressure in danger areas. There was a variety of similar calls could gave gone our way to give a few kicks and change to the complextion of things. There was also the trip which should have been yellowed. These had a big impact on the game and it's reasonable to point to it in light of the ripping the side have got.

                  All hope of finishing the game with a threat was killed off in the 55 - 58 minutes when we had massive pressure on and good phases inside their 22 but Sexton ****ed the ball to nobody, Murray was held up short, and then Wales turned us over in the next play. We should have done better here with our chances more than Wales dominated us in defence. The rest of the game was irrelevant.

                  ​At no point were we under any sustained pressure, certainly not in the 22, and we were the one's who looked like scoring tries, and should have on more than one occasion. We actually spread the ball well, but Sexton should have been better at picking space in behind the rush defence.

                  The key way Wales disrupted us was at the breakdown, and Leavy really was a major loss than first thought. SOB was anonymos and that's it for him at this level really. The game seemed to totally pass POM by. He was totally ineffective even when in the action and there should rightly be questions over his position when everyone's fit after that one. More widely, we have a few guys who do a good tidy job when they hit rucks, but don't add much dynamism to how they do it the way Henderson, Cronin or Leavy do, or the way the subs did when brought in.

                  Murray was actually grand, certainly not nearly as bad as Sexton who had a meltdown in the 20 minutes after half time. We should recognise the pace Marmion can bring in for us though and use it more. If Sexton or Carbery made the pass for Larmours try that Carthy did we'd be hearing about it all week. He's a good player that lad.
                  ​​​​​​
                  If this was a 3 match series, and they watched back that game this week, you'd put your house on us turning it around in game two with some tweaks. We need to add to our game, and some players aren't providing enough, but we're not in the complete doldrums.
                  I said to my uncle straight after the game “Wales didn’t really have to win that, we lost it.”

                  What you say is true. We were having a bad day at the office. The issue is that the lads on the field couldn’t change it and Joe wouldn’t change it.

                  Comment


                    Originally posted by Munsterboy View Post

                    I said to my uncle straight after the game “Wales didn’t really have to win that, we lost it.”

                    What you say is true. We were having a bad day at the office. The issue is that the lads on the field couldn’t change it and Joe wouldn’t change it.
                    It’s one of the reasons the ‘Wales (or indeed England) are back and are a decent RWC bet’ bandwagon (British media) is so silly. We have not been good this year, except for 30mins against France, but we lost games where we conceded very early, and were double figures behind before we realise we the game had started. The neither players or the plan was good enough to recover- playing the way we did we could still be on the field and not beat either of them- but that neither means they are that much better, or that we would lose if we played them again. We have a heck of a lot of work to do- and the 6N this year showed us that- but we can be an awful lot better, I’m not convinced they can be.

                    Comment


                      Originally posted by busby View Post
                      Watched the game back again out of interest.

                      To be honest, it wasn't nearly as bad as it seemed live, and a combination of errors, poor decisions and very dodgy to terrible ref calls at key moments allowed Wales build up a lead that didn't really reflect the tightness of the game.

                      After the try, we were on top most of the rest of half.

                      Sexton seals off stupidly after they cleared their lines to let them go 10 up. From the kickoff, we end up deep in their half and Beirne is called for coming in from the side - blatantly wrong call, and pressure relieved.

                      We should have taken the 3 points, that's an obvious. CJ's failed solo when we have a scrum under the posts soon after that was the most costly error in the game though. We score from there and it was a totally different game after.

                      After the 30 minute mark Furlong falls for a feint to veer offside, they go 13 up. The scrum penalty for them to go 16 up just before half time was massively questionable.

                      The first 10 minutes of the second half were nip and tuck. Then another awful decision against Healy let Wales make it 19-0 on the 48 minute mark. **** kick off from Sexton. Then another borderline penalty call against Stander a few minutes later for not rolling away when trapped and they're 22 up.

                      Pointing at the penalties, by the way, isn't to crib, but to show we weren't that terrible. Most weren't a result of any real pressure in danger areas. There was a variety of similar calls could gave gone our way to give a few kicks and change to the complextion of things. There was also the trip which should have been yellowed. These had a big impact on the game and it's reasonable to point to it in light of the ripping the side have got.

                      All hope of finishing the game with a threat was killed off in the 55 - 58 minutes when we had massive pressure on and good phases inside their 22 but Sexton ****ed the ball to nobody, Murray was held up short, and then Wales turned us over in the next play. We should have done better here with our chances more than Wales dominated us in defence. The rest of the game was irrelevant.

                      ​At no point were we under any sustained pressure, certainly not in the 22, and we were the one's who looked like scoring tries, and should have on more than one occasion. We actually spread the ball well, but Sexton should have been better at picking space in behind the rush defence.

                      The key way Wales disrupted us was at the breakdown, and Leavy really was a major loss than first thought. SOB was anonymos and that's it for him at this level really. The game seemed to totally pass POM by. He was totally ineffective even when in the action and there should rightly be questions over his position when everyone's fit after that one. More widely, we have a few guys who do a good tidy job when they hit rucks, but don't add much dynamism to how they do it the way Henderson, Cronin or Leavy do, or the way the subs did when brought in.

                      Murray was actually grand, certainly not nearly as bad as Sexton who had a meltdown in the 20 minutes after half time. We should recognise the pace Marmion can bring in for us though and use it more. If Sexton or Carbery made the pass for Larmours try that Carthy did we'd be hearing about it all week. He's a good player that lad.
                      ​​​​​​
                      If this was a 3 match series, and they watched back that game this week, you'd put your house on us turning it around in game two with some tweaks. We need to add to our game, and some players aren't providing enough, but we're not in the complete doldrums.
                      Agree with what you say there - just except I didn't think POM was that bad. Things just didn't go their way that day. I'd be confident they would do a lot better on a different day. Also over the 6N, they had some injuries and I totally agree with whats been said about missing Dan Leavy. In some positions too, they were forced to play maybe 3rd/4th choices (eg Dillane/Roux), Carty, Cooney etc. These players were relatively inexperienced, and will probably have learned a lot from the whole experience. Its really unfortunate too that Joey Carberry got injured and missed out.
                      2018 was pure magic for the Ireland team and I'm massively grateful just to have seen it happen, but it may suit us better with the WC in mind to get back under the radar a bit.

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