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    Originally posted by Balla Boy View Post

    Where are they from? Are they on general release? I think I saw a journo tweet that...
    They get sent to journalists. Not sure if they're on general release.

    Whole team were poor. A lot of people questioning POM's role in the team (Outside of here). Pretty laughable. The same fellas slating him now were licking his arse in November.

    Comment


      Originally posted by Munsterboy View Post

      I suppose POM could have stepped into the front row and had a go at scrummaging for Healy, he could have told SOB to take a break and let him carry up blind alleys instead (leaving Navidi to have his way at the breakdown), and he could have gone around tackling Welsh lads even though they didn’t have the ball and weren’t doing an awful lot of attacking. But I doubt any of that would have improved matters.

      We lost primarily because we had no variety to our attack, a 9 and 10 whose execution was way off, and not enough cutting edge in our back line.


      So I presume you would support the inclusion of Zebo, if he were available, who would certainly add cutting edge to our backline.

      Anybody who sees a psychiatrist would want their head examined.*&nb sp;Henry Ford

      Comment


        Originally posted by TomsOnTheRoof View Post

        They get sent to journalists. Not sure if they're on general release.

        Whole team were poor. A lot of people questioning POM's role in the team (Outside of here). Pretty laughable. The same fellas slating him now were licking his arse in November.
        It's an interesting dashboard.

        It really asks some questions of those who would say with an entirely straight face that Joe simply doesn't notice when his "favourites" aren't performing. The depth of data they must have like...
        "We will not walk in fear, one of another. We will not be driven into an age of unreason if we dig deep into our history and remember we are not descended from fearful men" Edward R Murrow

        "Little by little, we have been brought into the present condition in which we are able neither to tolerate the evils from which we suffer, nor the remedies we need to cure them." - Livy


        "I think that progress has been made by two flames that have always been burning in the human heart. The flame of anger against injustice and the flame of hope that you can build a better world" - Tony Benn

        Comment


          Originally posted by Munsterboy View Post

          I suppose POM could have stepped into the front row and had a go at scrummaging for Healy, he could have told SOB to take a break and let him carry up blind alleys instead (leaving Navidi to have his way at the breakdown), and he could have gone around tackling Welsh lads even though they didn’t have the ball and weren’t doing an awful lot of attacking. But I doubt any of that would have improved matters.

          We lost primarily because we had no variety to our attack, a 9 and 10 whose execution was way off, and not enough cutting edge in our back line.
          Ahh don’t be like that, the fact that my second sentence says “joking aside” should show you I was more making a joke at how it read than any criticism of POM.

          Comment


            It'd be interesting to see those "ruck speed" stats compared to 2018.

            Comment


              Originally posted by Balla Boy View Post

              Where are they from? Are they on general release? I think I saw a journo tweet that...
              Tweeted/retweeted by Three Red Kings, which is where I grabbed it from, they are clearly from a pdf, would be great to get hold of this sort of thing, I posted in order to counter the 1 tackle, etc stuff.

              Comment


                Originally posted by cornerboy View Post
                [/B]

                So I presume you would support the inclusion of Zebo, if he were available, who would certainly add cutting edge to our backline.
                Nope, because he’s playing abroad and I support the policy of picking Ireland based players.

                I’d like to see more of Larmour or Conway at FB.

                Comment


                  Originally posted by Joe Konys barmy army View Post

                  Ahh don’t be like that, the fact that my second sentence says “joking aside” should show you I was more making a joke at how it read than any criticism of POM.
                  Fair enough. Still feeling a bit sensitive after Saturday.

                  Comment


                    I really do intend this to be constructive, and apologies if it seems obvious.
                    many of of us here buy tickets, watch on tv, go to games , maybe all or some of these. Others have played or coached at varying levels. Some here may still do. As someone who is in a number of these categories, but now just a fan, and fairly numerate, I’m astounded when I see the minute data that is readily available to some (journalists), imagine what other data there are which are not released. If the plan says player x should do y, there will be very precise data available about how well he has done so. We might think a particular shirt number should, according to our knowledge of that position (could possibly be a bit vague/outdated?), but we can be absolutely sure a coach like Schmidt will have very specific requirements of players. These might be different it to what we, relatively knowledgeable, fans expect. This is obviously going to vary by the usual and particular requirements of a position- so I might expect my 10 to capably rceive distribute, kick etc etc, but some coaches might require a defensive role, other coaches might, for example require the flankers to cover the defensive frailties of the 10 (jusit think about ROG or Wilkinson), and the different responsibilitiesguys wearing the same shirt number might have had.

                    The only point I’m trying to make here is that opinions are fine, go for it, but there probably are specific requirements of a player and data about how well they have met these, that most of us might not realise. That doesn’t mean don’t have an opinion, hey we’re all posting here because we love the games and Munster (some very welcome others excepted), but we don’t have to descend to the level of lazy, jobbing, ill-informed journos, high stool pontificators., etc.

                    no player,coach, ref, etc is beyond criticism- let’s just try to make it informed. This is not a defence of POM, but if his specified role, for whatever reason, was to hit rucks, etc, let’s not hammer the guy because he did what he was told, and the day show he did that really well. If that’s a stupid way of using the player (we might think of Zebo and ruck resourcing) then, arguably, it’s a coach issue.

                    Comment


                      Originally posted by jagawayagain View Post
                      I really do intend this to be constructive, and apologies if it seems obvious.
                      many of of us here buy tickets, watch on tv, go to games , maybe all or some of these. Others have played or coached at varying levels. Some here may still do. As someone who is in a number of these categories, but now just a fan, and fairly numerate, I’m astounded when I see the minute data that is readily available to some (journalists), imagine what other data there are which are not released. If the plan says player x should do y, there will be very precise data available about how well he has done so. We might think a particular shirt number should, according to our knowledge of that position (could possibly be a bit vague/outdated?), but we can be absolutely sure a coach like Schmidt will have very specific requirements of players. These might be different it to what we, relatively knowledgeable, fans expect. This is obviously going to vary by the usual and particular requirements of a position- so I might expect my 10 to capably rceive distribute, kick etc etc, but some coaches might require a defensive role, other coaches might, for example require the flankers to cover the defensive frailties of the 10 (jusit think about ROG or Wilkinson), and the different responsibilitiesguys wearing the same shirt number might have had.

                      The only point I’m trying to make here is that opinions are fine, go for it, but there probably are specific requirements of a player and data about how well they have met these, that most of us might not realise. That doesn’t mean don’t have an opinion, hey we’re all posting here because we love the games and Munster (some very welcome others excepted), but we don’t have to descend to the level of lazy, jobbing, ill-informed journos, high stool pontificators., etc.

                      no player,coach, ref, etc is beyond criticism- let’s just try to make it informed. This is not a defence of POM, but if his specified role, for whatever reason, was to hit rucks, etc, let’s not hammer the guy because he did what he was told, and the day show he did that really well. If that’s a stupid way of using the player (we might think of Zebo and ruck resourcing) then, arguably, it’s a coach issue.


                      I think that's reasonable starting point when we're considering a guy like Schmidt. The question for me with him is always "why?" rather than "what the ****?".

                      We know his capabilities and the level of success he's had. As observers looking at his game plan or his selections or his approach to handling the media, we have to start with the assumption that he's asked himself every question we're asking, knows everything we know and a chunk more, and then wonder why he's taken the approach he has.

                      It's him who will stand or fall on the results.

                      The sad reality is that if Ireland crash and burn at the world cup, the most successful coach in Irish rugby history is going to leave with a sense of failure hanging over him.

                      He knows that, we know that. So we really should credit him with having given this some thought. Some very informed, detailed, evidence based thought.

                      That doesn't mean he's infallible. It just requires us to come to some different conclusions about why he makes the decisions he does.

                      It's simply not tenable, for instance, that Joe hasn't noticed Kearney's issues in the last tackle or his lack of gas in attack. The question then is why he chooses him. Which is a far more interesting question, as an observer.
                      "We will not walk in fear, one of another. We will not be driven into an age of unreason if we dig deep into our history and remember we are not descended from fearful men" Edward R Murrow

                      "Little by little, we have been brought into the present condition in which we are able neither to tolerate the evils from which we suffer, nor the remedies we need to cure them." - Livy


                      "I think that progress has been made by two flames that have always been burning in the human heart. The flame of anger against injustice and the flame of hope that you can build a better world" - Tony Benn

                      Comment


                        Originally posted by jagawayagain View Post
                        I really do intend this to be constructive, and apologies if it seems obvious.
                        many of of us here buy tickets, watch on tv, go to games , maybe all or some of these. Others have played or coached at varying levels. Some here may still do. As someone who is in a number of these categories, but now just a fan, and fairly numerate, I’m astounded when I see the minute data that is readily available to some (journalists), imagine what other data there are which are not released. If the plan says player x should do y, there will be very precise data available about how well he has done so. We might think a particular shirt number should, according to our knowledge of that position (could possibly be a bit vague/outdated?), but we can be absolutely sure a coach like Schmidt will have very specific requirements of players. These might be different it to what we, relatively knowledgeable, fans expect. This is obviously going to vary by the usual and particular requirements of a position- so I might expect my 10 to capably rceive distribute, kick etc etc, but some coaches might require a defensive role, other coaches might, for example require the flankers to cover the defensive frailties of the 10 (jusit think about ROG or Wilkinson), and the different responsibilitiesguys wearing the same shirt number might have had.

                        The only point I’m trying to make here is that opinions are fine, go for it, but there probably are specific requirements of a player and data about how well they have met these, that most of us might not realise. That doesn’t mean don’t have an opinion, hey we’re all posting here because we love the games and Munster (some very welcome others excepted), but we don’t have to descend to the level of lazy, jobbing, ill-informed journos, high stool pontificators., etc.

                        no player,coach, ref, etc is beyond criticism- let’s just try to make it informed. This is not a defence of POM, but if his specified role, for whatever reason, was to hit rucks, etc, let’s not hammer the guy because he did what he was told, and the day show he did that really well. If that’s a stupid way of using the player (we might think of Zebo and ruck resourcing) then, arguably, it’s a coach issue.
                        Fair points and well made....however.....
                        Joe seems to me to take a conservative and technocratic approach to the game, and perhaps he must, its vital in the professional era. However you must also exploit less tangible/measuarble facets of the game such as passion, flair variation and inventiveness. Statistics wont fully measure these. I think Joe's conservativism sometimes leads to a 'devil you know...' approach to selection and the omission of certain players....playing Henshaw at full back is a case in point, he knew and trusted Henshaw and was I suspect a little wary of the Conway's and Larmour's less restrained style of play.....and it backfired....so he reverts to another player he knows and trusts.. Kearney. Ireland have become predictable and other teams are well prepared to counter Ireland's tactics, and I think we need to adapt, and adopt tactics that can be varied 'on the fly' as, or even before, the need arises, but I fear that the ability to do this has been drilled out of the players...............................but then what do I know about anything?
                        'twas wicked yousir!

                        Comment


                          I think ROG is on the money. We need to learn how to chase a game.
                          We can't do it
                          Gwan Joe!!

                          Comment


                            Originally posted by jagawayagain View Post
                            I really do intend this to be constructive, and apologies if it seems obvious.
                            many of of us here buy tickets, watch on tv, go to games , maybe all or some of these. Others have played or coached at varying levels. Some here may still do. As someone who is in a number of these categories, but now just a fan, and fairly numerate, I’m astounded when I see the minute data that is readily available to some (journalists), imagine what other data there are which are not released. If the plan says player x should do y, there will be very precise data available about how well he has done so. We might think a particular shirt number should, according to our knowledge of that position (could possibly be a bit vague/outdated?), but we can be absolutely sure a coach like Schmidt will have very specific requirements of players. These might be different it to what we, relatively knowledgeable, fans expect. This is obviously going to vary by the usual and particular requirements of a position- so I might expect my 10 to capably rceive distribute, kick etc etc, but some coaches might require a defensive role, other coaches might, for example require the flankers to cover the defensive frailties of the 10 (jusit think about ROG or Wilkinson), and the different responsibilitiesguys wearing the same shirt number might have had.

                            The only point I’m trying to make here is that opinions are fine, go for it, but there probably are specific requirements of a player and data about how well they have met these, that most of us might not realise. That doesn’t mean don’t have an opinion, hey we’re all posting here because we love the games and Munster (some very welcome others excepted), but we don’t have to descend to the level of lazy, jobbing, ill-informed journos, high stool pontificators., etc.

                            no player,coach, ref, etc is beyond criticism- let’s just try to make it informed. This is not a defence of POM, but if his specified role, for whatever reason, was to hit rucks, etc, let’s not hammer the guy because he did what he was told, and the day show he did that really well. If that’s a stupid way of using the player (we might think of Zebo and ruck resourcing) then, arguably, it’s a coach issue.
                            Very good post, I only have one issue.... Wilkinson? Defensive frailties? He used to empty lads! - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZzOGpWbv1-o

                            Comment


                              Originally posted by ustix View Post
                              I think ROG is on the money. We need to learn how to chase a game.
                              We can't do it
                              I don't understand this argument, much as I'm seeing it. And much as we can clearly see that Ireland have struggled to recover from losing positions this year.

                              We chased against France last year and won. Surely the problem is that we've leaked scores and not had the ability to score enough tries?

                              I know it amounts to the same thing, but I don't get the "chasing" formulation. Scores are added up at the end of 80 minutes. We've conceded too many and scored too few.

                              If you have a game plan and go a try down, do you really tear up the play book? We put 37 points on Wales last year. That looks more like the issue to me.
                              "We will not walk in fear, one of another. We will not be driven into an age of unreason if we dig deep into our history and remember we are not descended from fearful men" Edward R Murrow

                              "Little by little, we have been brought into the present condition in which we are able neither to tolerate the evils from which we suffer, nor the remedies we need to cure them." - Livy


                              "I think that progress has been made by two flames that have always been burning in the human heart. The flame of anger against injustice and the flame of hope that you can build a better world" - Tony Benn

                              Comment


                                Originally posted by CP09 View Post

                                Very good post, I only have one issue.... Wilkinson? Defensive frailties? He used to empty lads! - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZzOGpWbv1-o
                                There were a lot of assertions at the time that he'd permanently changed the nature of the fly half role in defence, and they'd all be destructive tacklers in the future.

                                The Fly Half Trade Union have given that a collective "**** right off"
                                "We will not walk in fear, one of another. We will not be driven into an age of unreason if we dig deep into our history and remember we are not descended from fearful men" Edward R Murrow

                                "Little by little, we have been brought into the present condition in which we are able neither to tolerate the evils from which we suffer, nor the remedies we need to cure them." - Livy


                                "I think that progress has been made by two flames that have always been burning in the human heart. The flame of anger against injustice and the flame of hope that you can build a better world" - Tony Benn

                                Comment

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