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6N RD4 IRELAND v FRANCE Sunday Mar10 15.00

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    Originally posted by Isa View Post

    Beirne strikes me as a lad who does all the work of a back row and none of the work of a second row. Great poacher etc but is that really the role of a second row. He was facilitated in this role by the scarletts. Looking for turnovers at every rook. Doesn't work like that at intl level
    Hell hath no fury like a fanboy scorned.

    Comment


      Originally posted by Munsterboy View Post

      Ryan had two caps on a summer tour plus two more in the autumn before he got his 6Ns debut.

      Stockdale had the very same profile as Ryan: two summer plus two autumn caps before his 6Ns debut.

      Similarly, Leavy had one autumn cap and two summer tour caps before he got proper 6Ns time.
      He did get 15 minutes off the bench during the prior 6Ns but only due to injuries and he was promptly dropped again when others were fit.

      Farrell had only two autumn tests under his belt before getting a single 6Ns start but again, it was due to an injury crisis in the centre.

      My impression is that Joe likes lads to have been involved in a couple of series before he gives them serious consideration for his 6Ns first XV. Tadhg only has two autumn caps and we don’t have the same injury crisis at lock so he’d be very lucky to get in.

      TB got two caps on the summer tour last year to AUZ

      Comment


        Originally posted by Isa View Post

        Beirne strikes me as a lad who does all the work of a back row and none of the work of a second row. Great poacher etc but is that really the role of a second row. He was facilitated in this role by the scarletts. Looking for turnovers at every rook. Doesn't work like that at intl level
        This is the received "wisdom" knocking around at the moment and it's horse ****e. Beirne calls the lineout for us, he hits rucks and he recycles poor ball into fast ball. He's also well able to tackle. It's the same nonsense that was levelled at CJ for not passing despite him having statistically the second highest number of passes in the pack.

        The truth is that Schmidt is a bad selector. The last WC, the constant inclusion of D. Kearney in match day squads, POM's stint in the wilderness and his reluctance to look at a backup FB all illustrate this. He's also too rigid in his approach at times and this is evident in our conservatism with the ball in hand. Andy Dunne has been banging on about this for the last 18 months and I fear he'll be proven right come the WC.

        Schmidt's a great coach but far from infallible.
        ​​​​​​

        Comment


          Joe could have picked Beirne vs Italy also but he sent him back to Munster, this week it’s soreness. Every rugby player is sore, you always hear pundits say that every week you go into a game you have some soreness, no one is 100% going into each game. Bod said he found it odd that Beirne wasn’t there and suggested perhaps there’s a clash of personalities there or something like that for Joe to not pick Beirne.

          Once again, Joes achilles heel of being a terrible selector has raised its head, he’s so blind to some obvious selections, it’s incredibly frustrating. As noted before, CJ only got in due to injury and then he left Pom out and he only got in due to injury. We ve seen Joes persistence with average players continue when there are more exciting less experienced guys out there, ie he could play Beirne 8 ahead of Jordi all day for me or at 6 ahead of Ruddock but he would never do that.

          For all the talk of the number of players capped and the strength in depth, the reality is that against tier one nations he rotates very little and usually only when injury forces his hand. Marmion and Larmour getting game time against the USA, big deal who cares, won’t mean anything when it comes to the RWC. Sadly after we crash out of the World Cup in next years 6N we ll see Scannell Beirne and a new 15 (henshaw conway or Larmour) in instead of Best Toner Rob and we ll be a far better side, why we can’t pick them now is beyond me .
          \"Only Pienaar, Botha and Ferris would be in contention for a place on our first 15. That\'s a fact.\" - Tickettout\'s take on Ulster April 2011.

          Comment


            Originally posted by TomsOnTheRoof View Post

            This is the received "wisdom" knocking around at the moment and it's horse ****e. Beirne calls the lineout for us, he hits rucks and he recycles poor ball into fast ball. He's also well able to tackle. It's the same nonsense that was levelled at CJ for not passing despite him having statistically the second highest number of passes in the pack.

            The truth is that Schmidt is a bad selector. The last WC, the constant inclusion of D. Kearney in match day squads, POM's stint in the wilderness and his reluctance to look at a backup FB all illustrate this. He's also too rigid in his approach at times and this is evident in our conservatism with the ball in hand. Andy Dunne has been banging on about this for the last 18 months and I fear he'll be proven right come the WC.

            Schmidt's a great coach but far from infallible.
            ​​​​​​
            If you put enough worms in the water.....

            Comment


              Originally posted by lawrence View Post

              If you put enough worms in the water.....
              As easy as it would be to believe, personally I just think he hasn't a rashers.

              Comment


                Originally posted by Isa View Post
                Great poacher etc but is that really the role of a second row.
                Rugby is an ever evolving game and New Zealand set the standards. The notion that second rows don't have to turnover ball is outdated.
                Two of the best second rows in world rugby, if not the best- Retallick and Barrett, steal a sh*tload of ball at ruck time.
                Lavanini, Itoje, Etzebeth, AWJ etc have plenty of poaching abilities too.

                Comment


                  Originally posted by kahalui View Post
                  Rugby is an ever evolving game and New Zealand set the standards. The notion that second rows don't have to turnover ball is outdated.
                  Two of the best second rows in world rugby, if not the best- Retallick and Barrett, steal a sh*tload of ball at ruck time.
                  Lavanini, Itoje, Etzebeth, AWJ etc have plenty of poaching abilities too.
                  At one time scrums didn't have set positions. The forwards would roll up and whoever got there first would play front row. Then NZ decided to change this up on a tour of Britain (much to Tue host's annoyance) and we now have our current positions in the pack.

                  Comment


                    Originally posted by Talking Sense View Post
                    Joe could have picked Beirne vs Italy also but he sent him back to Munster, this week it’s soreness. Every rugby player is sore, you always hear pundits say that every week you go into a game you have some soreness, no one is 100% going into each game. Bod said he found it odd that Beirne wasn’t there and suggested perhaps there’s a clash of personalities there or something like that for Joe to not pick Beirne.

                    Once again, Joes achilles heel of being a terrible selector has raised its head, he’s so blind to some obvious selections, it’s incredibly frustrating. As noted before, CJ only got in due to injury and then he left Pom out and he only got in due to injury. We ve seen Joes persistence with average players continue when there are more exciting less experienced guys out there, ie he could play Beirne 8 ahead of Jordi all day for me or at 6 ahead of Ruddock but he would never do that.

                    For all the talk of the number of players capped and the strength in depth, the reality is that against tier one nations he rotates very little and usually only when injury forces his hand. Marmion and Larmour getting game time against the USA, big deal who cares, won’t mean anything when it comes to the RWC. Sadly after we crash out of the World Cup in next years 6N we ll see Scannell Beirne and a new 15 (henshaw conway or Larmour) in instead of Best Toner Rob and we ll be a far better side, why we can’t pick them now is beyond me .


                    Are you really advocating playing injured players?

                    This notion of Schmidt being a conservative terrible selector is just so ridiculous .Its his critics who nearly wet themselves with worry at the apparently huge risk of playing Henshaw at full back that are conservative. Stockdale, Carbury, Ryan, Ringrose, Furlong,: the team is full of young fellas who were given the nod early doors. If you're good enough, you're old enough is clearly Schmidt's motto.

                    Regarding Beirne. There was a debate on here a while back about the poor Munster lineout during a Pro14 game. The agreed consensus was that it was unfair to blame Scannell for the poor lineout performance as there was nobody tall enough to deliver guaranteed lineout ball in the absence of O'Mahoney. Beirne was playing that game.

                    Wayne Pivac talked about this when he wondered if Beirne was big eneough for international rugby. We saw Beirne against Argentina in the Autumn internationals where Ireland's lineout was poor and there was an immediate call for Toner to be reinstated and who duly delivered against NZ.

                    He has to be able to perform his second row functions first and foremost. It's Test rugby after all. It might be an unpopular opinion but Isa made a good point. If Hookers were judged on making breaks and scoring try's, well then, Sean Cronin is the best Hoooker Ireland have ever had, but that's not how they're judged. Beirne may have a WC role to play but I doubt if it will be as a starter.








                    Comment


                      Originally posted by TomsOnTheRoof View Post

                      As easy as it would be to believe, personally I just think he hasn't a rashers.
                      he doesn’t know a dot about rugby, but he’s a good fisherman

                      Comment


                        Originally posted by Omerta View Post



                        Are you really advocating playing injured players?

                        This notion of Schmidt being a conservative terrible selector is just so ridiculous .Its his critics who nearly wet themselves with worry at the apparently huge risk of playing Henshaw at full back that are conservative. Stockdale, Carbury, Ryan, Ringrose, Furlong,: the team is full of young fellas who were given the nod early doors. If you're good enough, you're old enough is clearly Schmidt's motto.

                        Regarding Beirne. There was a debate on here a while back about the poor Munster lineout during a Pro14 game. The agreed consensus was that it was unfair to blame Scannell for the poor lineout performance as there was nobody tall enough to deliver guaranteed lineout ball in the absence of O'Mahoney. Beirne was playing that game.

                        Wayne Pivac talked about this when he wondered if Beirne was big eneough for international rugby. We saw Beirne against Argentina in the Autumn internationals where Ireland's lineout was poor and there was an immediate call for Toner to be reinstated and who duly delivered against NZ.

                        He has to be able to perform his second row functions first and foremost. It's Test rugby after all. It might be an unpopular opinion but Isa made a good point. If Hookers were judged on making breaks and scoring try's, well then, Sean Cronin is the best Hoooker Ireland have ever had, but that's not how they're judged. Beirne may have a WC role to play but I doubt if it will be as a starter.

                        How many line breaks did Sean Cronin make against Italy?

                        What did it take for POM to get into the Irish starting team?

                        what will it take for RK to get out of the Irish team?

                        If joe is so good at giving youth its chance then why not start Carbery or Cooney in any game when Murray and Sexton are playing shyte?

                        Comment


                          Originally posted by lawrence View Post

                          TB got two caps on the summer tour last year to AUZ
                          True. I thought he’d been left out of that tour but you’re right. Scrap that then, Joe just doesn’t fancy him. Strange.

                          Comment


                            Originally posted by Munsterboy View Post

                            True. I thought he’d been left out of that tour but you’re right. Scrap that then, Joe just doesn’t fancy him. Strange.
                            Joe could have capped him earlier as well, he could have played in the Autumn fixtures the year before once his announcement of moving to Munster had been made, once zebos announcement was made he was excluded immedialty so the reverse should have happened for TB

                            Comment


                              Originally posted by Omerta View Post

                              What utter drivel

                              Are you really advocating playing injured players? ??

                              This notion of Schmidt being a conservative terrible selector is just so ridiculous .Its his critics who nearly wet themselves with worry at the apparently huge risk of playing Henshaw at full back that are conservative. Stockdale, Carbury, Ryan, Ringrose, Furlong,: the team is full of young fellas who were given the nod early doors. If you're good enough, you're old enough is clearly Schmidt's motto. Who was worrying about the apparent huge risk of Henshaw at fullback? So Joe has selected the best try scorer we've ever seen and what looks to be the best 2nd row and for sure tighthead we've ever had, you seem to be suggesting that Joe picking world class players is a sign that he's not a conservative selector.

                              Regarding Beirne. There was a debate on here a while back about the poor Munster lineout during a Pro14 game. The agreed consensus was that it was unfair to blame Scannell for the poor lineout performance as there was nobody tall enough to deliver guaranteed lineout ball in the absence of O'Mahoney. Beirne was playing that game. Everyone knows Beirne isnt 6'8, the issue was he was playing alongside Billy whos only 6'3 so as a combo they lack height, for Ireland he would have 3 guys 6'7 and up to pair up with.

                              Wayne Pivac talked about this when he wondered if Beirne was big eneough for international rugby. We saw Beirne against Argentina in the Autumn internationals where Ireland's lineout was poor and there was an immediate call for Toner to be reinstated and who duly delivered against NZ. Hahaha you absolute spoofer, Beirne didnt play against Argie lol

                              He has to be able to perform his second row functions first and foremost. It's Test rugby after all. It might be an unpopular opinion but Isa made a good point. If Hookers were judged on making breaks and scoring try's, well then, Sean Cronin is the best Hoooker Ireland have ever had, but that's not how they're judged. Beirne may have a WC role to play but I doubt if it will be as a starter. Get this man some straws! Hes clutching! Show us where Beirne is so severely lacking, we can see that Cronin cant throw, no sure what you're pretending what Beirne is so bad at.
                              \"Only Pienaar, Botha and Ferris would be in contention for a place on our first 15. That\'s a fact.\" - Tickettout\'s take on Ulster April 2011.

                              Comment


                                FYI. for anyone heading up in't morning, as I am, the DART will not be operating between town and Lansdowne Rd

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