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6N RD4 IRELAND v FRANCE Sunday Mar10 15.00

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    6N RD4 IRELAND v FRANCE Sunday Mar10 15.00

    Drastic changes needed to salvage this campaign, otherwise we ll go into the WC in a similar scenario to Cooder's undroppables in the 2007 WC with everyone knowing the first 15 is untouchable.

    Healy Scannell Furlong Ryan Beirne POM VDF CJ (Conan otherwise) Murray Carbery Earls Aki Ringrose Stockdale Henshaw.

    Best Killer Ryan Hendo Conan Cooney Sexton Larmour.
    \"Only Pienaar, Botha and Ferris would be in contention for a place on our first 15. That\'s a fact.\" - Tickettout\'s take on Ulster April 2011.

    #2
    I think you would have to drop Murray too unfortunately
    Seven social sins: politics without principles, wealth without work, pleasure without conscience, knowledge without character, commerce without morality, science without humanity, and worship without sacrifice



    Comment


      #3
      Originally posted by Talking Sense View Post
      Drastic changes needed to salvage this campaign, otherwise we ll go into the WC in a similar scenario to Cooder's undroppables in the 2007 WC with everyone knowing the first 15 is untouchable.

      Healy Scannell Furlong Ryan Beirne POM VDF CJ (Conan otherwise) Murray Carbery Earls Aki Ringrose Stockdale Henshaw.

      Best Killer Ryan Hendo Conan Cooney Sexton Larmour.
      Henshaw at 15?
      Come off the stage.

      Comment


        #4
        Now is the time for hysterical overreaction.

        Nulla semper amicus, servivit mihi, in iniuriam mihi neminem quem non persolvi

        Comment


          #5
          Originally posted by lawrence View Post

          Henshaw at 15?
          Come off the stage.
          What do you think was Joe's train of thought in relation to Henshaw vs Eng? They must have discussed the possibility of him struggling due to match fitness and positional rustiness and what they would then do if that happened. For me its piss poor man management to throw a guy in against England, when hes lacking match fitness and hardly ever plays 15, and to then drop him from the position immediately.

          This is especially true given we then learned that Earls was carrying a knock and Englands attacking kicking has been a revelation this tournament (as seen vs France and the amount of grass they found, Im convinced Kearney would have had problems with it also btw). If Henshaw was deemed good enough to play Eng then hes worth another shot there, if not give Conway or Larmour a go, we know they are 1 million times better than Rob in attack and this goalkeeper dog**** that we have to listen to has once again been proved to be BS (pathetic non tackle on Hayward, not going down on the kick for try 2, dropping high ball under no pressure). Flesh out your thinking Lawrence rather than telling me off.
          Last edited by Talking Sense; 25th-February-2019, 15:50.
          \"Only Pienaar, Botha and Ferris would be in contention for a place on our first 15. That\'s a fact.\" - Tickettout\'s take on Ulster April 2011.

          Comment


            #6
            If Murray genuinely is continuing to suffer the effects of this neck/nerve issue - and there are reasonable indicators that he is - then I'd far rather he was instructed to take the time off to heal rather than risk it being exacerbated or further damaged, whether in training or in a game. This isn't so much about how well Ireland can do in the 6N (or for that matter the RWC), or even how far Munster can go in the HEC and Pro14 - I love it when we win and all, but not at all costs. I know that rugby players are always carrying knocks and niggles, but this looks like something more serious than that. Looking at a worst-case scenario, I'd rather do without him for the rest of the calendar year than see him end up retiring early or living the rest of his life with some sort of debilitation because of this.

            In a similar vein, it has become increasingly apparent during the 6N that Sexton can't kick the ball reliably from hand, nor off the tee at all. This would indicate to me that his primary issue is not a lack of playing time, as Joe has alluded to, but some sort of physical issue, i.e. calf/hamstring or similar. Again, the guy needs time off to recover, particularly as the frustration with his current inability to do what he normally does is clearly impacting on him. Just think back to when his temper got the better of him a couple of months ago in Thomond Park and how that played into our (Munster's) hands - France and Wales will be equally delighted to see the same thing from him.

            We managed to beat New Zealand without Murray on the field at all - I'm sure we can manage to face France at home fielding a starting halfback partnership of Marmion/Carbery with Cooney/Carty on the bench. Especially when Best, CJ, Aki and (hopefully) Carbery should be back in the side, with Henderson available to start alongside Ryan and any number of lock options for the bench including the two Connacht lads and Beirne. I think it's in the interests of the players themselves and of Irish ambitions for this tournament and the next one to leave both Murray and Sexton out of the side altogether.
            Last edited by mr chips; 25th-February-2019, 16:14.
            Tis but a scratch.

            Comment


              #7
              Originally posted by Talking Sense View Post

              What do you think was Joe's train of thought in relation to Henshaw vs Eng? They must have discussed the possibility of him struggling due to match fitness and positional rustiness and what they would then do if that happened. For me its piss poor man management to throw a guy in against England, when hes lacking match fitness and hardly ever plays 15, and to then drop him from the position immediately.

              This is especially true given we then learned that Earls was carrying a knock and Englands attacking kicking has been a revelation this tournament (as seen vs France and the amount of grass they found, Im convinced Kearney would have had problems with it also btw). If Henshaw was deemed good enough to play Eng then hes worth another shot there, if not give Conway or Larmour a go, we know they are 1 million times better than Rob in attack and this goalkeeper dog**** that we have to listen to has once again been proved to be BS (pathetic non tackle on Hayward, not going down on the kick for try 2, dropping high ball under no pressure). Flesh out your thinking Lawrence rather than telling me off.

              I think a lot of what your saying is true, it’s poor management, it’s a selection error, but if henshaw improves his ability to play 15 by 100% then I still wouldn’t pick him for a game in Newport against the dragons.

              The single biggest mistake joe has made in this campaign was picking henshaw at 15, I’m baffled that the coaches couldn’t see in training that he wasn’t able for it, and if they wanted to experiment and try someone else there then why was it not done against Italy? Conway or Larmour could have started.

              Henshaws positional problems were compounded by his lack of pace, and you can’t fix speed in a few weeks, if at all, and that’s before you mention his kicking game which is not at the races for this level.

              I dont for a second think he is good enough for another shot at 15.

              Conway or larmour deserve a chance there, maybe even start Carbery at 15 so that takes the pressure off sexton to be the only playmaker and gives you more options on the bench.

              The answer of course is thumb twiddling in France and there should be a concerted effort to get him back at Munster and onto the plane for Japan because we either go with a terrible 15 or a dodgy makeshift 15 for the RWC and that’s a problem we would pay dearly for. Does anybody really think Kearney is a good enough 15 to win a World Cup with? Because I sure as **** don’t.

              Comment


                #8
                Not sure I’d leave both the halfbacks our but would be tempted to drop one. Probably keep Murray and drop Sexton based on yesterday, although it’s a close run thing.
                Or maybe we just say feck it and go for broke. The tournament is lost so let’s experiment.

                In other areas of the field, both Killer and Scannell have staked their claims and you could reasonably start either. Healy and Best are out in front but Kilcoyne in particular put his hand up.

                We have a problem at 8. Conan isn’t great and Jordi is way too lightweight (which is why Ulster don’t play him at 8). Room for a RWC bolter there.

                We need a look at somebody else at 15. Conway deserves a go, especially with the French liable to run at us.

                Comment


                  #9
                  Originally posted by lawrence View Post

                  I think a lot of what your saying is true, it’s poor management, it’s a selection error, but if henshaw improves his ability to play 15 by 100% then I still wouldn’t pick him for a game in Newport against the dragons.

                  The single biggest mistake joe has made in this campaign was picking henshaw at 15, I’m baffled that the coaches couldn’t see in training that he wasn’t able for it, and if they wanted to experiment and try someone else there then why was it not done against Italy? Conway or Larmour could have started.

                  Henshaws positional problems were compounded by his lack of pace, and you can’t fix speed in a few weeks, if at all, and that’s before you mention his kicking game which is not at the races for this level.

                  I dont for a second think he is good enough for another shot at 15.

                  Conway or larmour deserve a chance there, maybe even start Carbery at 15 so that takes the pressure off sexton to be the only playmaker and gives you more options on the bench.

                  The answer of course is thumb twiddling in France and there should be a concerted effort to get him back at Munster and onto the plane for Japan because we either go with a terrible 15 or a dodgy makeshift 15 for the RWC and that’s a problem we would pay dearly for. Does anybody really think Kearney is a good enough 15 to win a World Cup with? Because I sure as **** don’t.
                  Yeah, he defo looked slow and out of position, you'd like to think he could fix these things but trimming down to get quicker isnt an overnight thing. The funny thing is Muldoon was on tv awhile back and he strongly said that 15 is Robbies best position, he was adamant about it in fact, Muldoon would have seen a lot more of him than you or I ever will.
                  \"Only Pienaar, Botha and Ferris would be in contention for a place on our first 15. That\'s a fact.\" - Tickettout\'s take on Ulster April 2011.

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Originally posted by Munsterboy View Post
                    Not sure I’d leave both the halfbacks our but would be tempted to drop one. Probably keep Murray and drop Sexton based on yesterday, although it’s a close run thing.
                    Or maybe we just say feck it and go for broke. The tournament is lost so let’s experiment.

                    In other areas of the field, both Killer and Scannell have staked their claims and you could reasonably start either. Healy and Best are out in front but Kilcoyne in particular put his hand up.

                    We have a problem at 8. Conan isn’t great and Jordi is way too lightweight (which is why Ulster don’t play him at 8). Room for a RWC bolter there.

                    We need a look at somebody else at 15. Conway deserves a go, especially with the French liable to run at us.
                    We have a habit of continuing to start our "starters" when they are off form, hoping they will play themselves back into form and then when they dont, we are left stuck. We should have started Carbery and Cooney against Italy, Sexton probably wasnt fit and Murray probably would have been better off on the bench. Now though we are stuck. I think starting Cooney v France is a risk, and Murray's form although not great has been reasonable. Sexton was poor enough against Italy, and Joey would be much less of a risk as a starter.

                    I am less worried about our #9, and #10 than our #2 - we simply dont have a reliable back up to Best. Cronin continues to misfire in the LO, and Munster arent even sure if Scannell is our #1 hooker- his form was pretty poor not so long ago. He did OK when he came on Sunday, but only OK, and I think we are kidding ourselves if we think he is 100% the answer. But I think he needs to bench for the next 2 games and get some solid time in both.

                    Comment


                      #11
                      I thought Murray played better on Sunday but there definitely seems to be something not quite right about him. This might sound a stupid suggestion but I wonder whether the Irish lads might be struggling to adapt to the ball that is being used in the six nations because both Sexton and Murray seem, to me, to be struggling to time the ball when they kick.

                      Comment


                        #12
                        I've been advocating for Rob to be dropped from the Irish team since before the last World Cup. He definitely should've been dropped after it, but he wasn't.
                        There's been all this talk about not making the same mistakes again and building strength in depth etc ... but Joe and the IRFU can have nobody but themselves to blame for the current lack of FB options, a few months out from the wc.




                        Comment


                          #13
                          Originally posted by kahalui View Post
                          I've been advocating for Rob to be dropped from the Irish team since before the last World Cup. He definitely should've been dropped after it, but he wasn't.
                          There's been all this talk about not making the same mistakes again and building strength in depth etc ... but Joe and the IRFU can have nobody but themselves to blame for the current lack of FB options, a few months out from the wc.
                          We should have looked at more options in some more games but the way you put it makes it like he's very poor. We should have looked in a few more games at other options though

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Originally posted by ormond lad View Post
                            We should have looked at more options in some more games but the way you put it makes it like he's very poor. We should have looked in a few more games at other options though
                            Any errors or poor preparation are costly at the highest level. Fine margins and all...

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Originally posted by Talking Sense View Post
                              Drastic changes needed to salvage this campaign, otherwise we ll go into the WC in a similar scenario to Cooder's undroppables in the 2007 WC with everyone knowing the first 15 is untouchable.

                              Healy Scannell Furlong Ryan Beirne POM VDF CJ (Conan otherwise) Murray Carbery Earls Aki Ringrose Stockdale Henshaw.

                              Best Killer Ryan Hendo Conan Cooney Sexton Larmour.
                              I don’t think Aki has done enough to warrant another start at 12, I’d go henshaw in midfield then Jordan or Conway at 15.

                              “One, Fineen needs to be louder, angrier, and have access to a time machine. Two, whenever Fineen’s not on field, all the other players should be asking 'Where's Fineen?

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