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    Seems the longer Zebo is gone the better he was!

    I remember Schmitt playing Zebo for Ireland at a time when his position for Munster was being questioned by many on here such was his form. Also, Schmitt was a big fan of his talents (especially of his ability to come in as an alternative distributer), he just wanted him to play a different game to the one Zebo wanted to play. Zebo is now playing the rugby he wants to play in France and more power to him.

    However, in terms of his Ireland credentials . . .
    - the reason there is a high bar for foreign based players to make it into an Ireland squad, is to provide an incentive for players to stay at home for the benefit of Irish rugby.
    - Zebo has never successfully addressed his defensive positioning frailties, and unless on top form is as likely to lose you a match as win it.
    - In addition to Stockdale and Earls, Larmour has probably reached Zebos level (and X factor) despite a shaky start, and I'd have Will Addison there too, with Conway just a little behind, though after that I think there is a big drop off and I think someone like Balacoune will be next up (i.e. I don't think any of Byrne, Sweetnam, Adeleokun etc. are going to get any closer)
    - so, much as I'd like to see Zebo with Ireland, with the options Ireland have, I don't think it's justified unless there are a whole lot of injuries

    Likewise with Donnacha Ryan, the starting row will be Toner and J Ryan and I think Henderson over the last year has really delivered on his talent so is nailed on sub, so DR will be very much a break-glass only option.

    Comment


      Originally posted by blueberry View Post
      Seems the longer Zebo is gone the better he was!

      I remember Schmitt playing Zebo for Ireland at a time when his position for Munster was being questioned by many on here such was his form. Also, Schmitt was a big fan of his talents (especially of his ability to come in as an alternative distributer), he just wanted him to play a different game to the one Zebo wanted to play. Zebo is now playing the rugby he wants to play in France and more power to him.

      However, in terms of his Ireland credentials . . .
      - the reason there is a high bar for foreign based players to make it into an Ireland squad, is to provide an incentive for players to stay at home for the benefit of Irish rugby.
      - Zebo has never successfully addressed his defensive positioning frailties, and unless on top form is as likely to lose you a match as win it.
      - In addition to Stockdale and Earls, Larmour has probably reached Zebos level (and X factor) despite a shaky start, and I'd have Will Addison there too, with Conway just a little behind, though after that I think there is a big drop off and I think someone like Balacoune will be next up (i.e. I don't think any of Byrne, Sweetnam, Adeleokun etc. are going to get any closer)
      - so, much as I'd like to see Zebo with Ireland, with the options Ireland have, I don't think it's justified unless there are a whole lot of injuries

      Likewise with Donnacha Ryan, the starting row will be Toner and J Ryan and I think Henderson over the last year has really delivered on his talent so is nailed on sub, so DR will be very much a break-glass only option.
      You were doing grand until the ****e about Zebo being as likely to lose a game as win you one (hasn’t been true since he was a young fella), centre/fullback Addison being a better winger than Conway and Balacoune being next up.

      Comment


        Originally posted by Munsterboy View Post

        You were doing grand until the ****e about Zebo being as likely to lose a game as win you one (hasn’t been true since he was a young fella), centre/fullback Addison being a better winger than Conway and Balacoune being next up.
        Ah now, quote me properly . . . I did say "unless on top form is as likely to lose you a match as win it" - he has had periods of fairly poor form, and not all since being a young lad.

        I do think Addison is a class act and better than Conway at full back, but admittedly that's just personally based on a few games, and I'd probably prefer Conway on the wing.

        Balacoune was more about the age profile (". . . someone like Balacoune . . .") as most of the other provincial wingers at the moment are mid-20s or older (apart from Wootton and Kelleher who I don't think will make the step up).

        Comment


          Originally posted by blueberry View Post

          Ah now, quote me properly . . . I did say "unless on top form is as likely to lose you a match as win it" - he has had periods of fairly poor form, and not all since being a young lad.

          I do think Addison is a class act and better than Conway at full back, but admittedly that's just personally based on a few games, and I'd probably prefer Conway on the wing.

          Balacoune was more about the age profile (". . . someone like Balacoune . . .") as most of the other provincial wingers at the moment are mid-20s or older (apart from Wootton and Kelleher who I don't think will make the step up).
          We can quibble about words, but despite being a huge Zebo fan, I basically agree- whether he should or not there are several players Joe would pick before Simon. The same is true of Donnacha, adding Kleyn in to the training squad along with the rafters of others who have been in and out of the squad since Donnacha, pretty much sorts that one. Joe will stick with “his” players, prepare them to the very best of his abilities (including some tactical adjustments to try to remedy the gaping holes England and Wales found) and sink or swim on that basis. Sink and he’s already out the door, swim and he is completely vindicated. Stay afloat marginally longer by picking Zebo, etc, and changing our game- people will simply say he changed too late. Simon might well get to Japan, but only as a pundit, and who knows, another year in France, and after that- back to Ireland and Munster, or a handy little number with all the such he can eat.

          Comment


            The main thing is we just have fewer locks of an acceptable standard as we do wingers. Whether you think Zebo and Ryan are the best wing/lock we have or the fifth best, basic numbers dictates Ryan has more of a chance of benefitting from injuries to get back in the fold.

            Comment



              I'm a big fan of Larmour but the idea that he's reached Zebo's level is pretty fanciful.

              Zebo is Munster's all time record try scorer. Despite the general consensus that his international career was underwhelming, he has 35 Ireland caps and a Lions Tour under his belt. He's scoring tries for fun in the Top 14.

              He's 29, and a top class player in the prime of his career. Larmour remains a very promising 22 year old with 39 Leinster caps. Zebo has 26 for Racing.
              "We will not walk in fear, one of another. We will not be driven into an age of unreason if we dig deep into our history and remember we are not descended from fearful men" Edward R Murrow

              "Little by little, we have been brought into the present condition in which we are able neither to tolerate the evils from which we suffer, nor the remedies we need to cure them." - Livy


              "I think that progress has been made by two flames that have always been burning in the human heart. The flame of anger against injustice and the flame of hope that you can build a better world" - Tony Benn

              Comment


                Just the 16 odd tries this season for Zebo, Larmour got 4. Since Sep 2011 Rob has scored 16 tries for the goys, laughable. Anyone who can honestly tell me why Rob and Dev are better than Zebo and Donnacha Ryan Im all ears.
                \"Only Pienaar, Botha and Ferris would be in contention for a place on our first 15. That\'s a fact.\" - Tickettout\'s take on Ulster April 2011.

                Comment


                  Originally posted by Talking Sense View Post
                  Just the 16 odd tries this season for Zebo, Larmour got 4. Since Sep 2011 Rob has scored 16 tries for the goys, laughable. Anyone who can honestly tell me why Rob and Dev are better than Zebo and Donnacha Ryan Im all ears.
                  They aren't.

                  But they are in Ireland, and that's what matters.

                  Comment


                    Originally posted by Rabb1tts Jump View Post

                    They aren't.

                    But they are in Ireland, and that's what matters.

                    But they're in Ireland because they were offered the central contracts that Zebo and Ryan weren't, aren't they?
                    "We will not walk in fear, one of another. We will not be driven into an age of unreason if we dig deep into our history and remember we are not descended from fearful men" Edward R Murrow

                    "Little by little, we have been brought into the present condition in which we are able neither to tolerate the evils from which we suffer, nor the remedies we need to cure them." - Livy


                    "I think that progress has been made by two flames that have always been burning in the human heart. The flame of anger against injustice and the flame of hope that you can build a better world" - Tony Benn

                    Comment


                      The central contracts list makes for interesing reading with the World Cup approaching.


                      Murray
                      Henderson
                      Stander
                      Furlong
                      POM
                      SOB
                      Toner
                      Kearney
                      Best
                      Healy
                      McGrath
                      Henshaw
                      Earls
                      Sexton


                      SOB won't travel, Toner won't start, Best and Kearney must be under pressure. Leinster fans are of the view that Stander is. And POM too (thought I'm not sure I'd agree).


                      "We will not walk in fear, one of another. We will not be driven into an age of unreason if we dig deep into our history and remember we are not descended from fearful men" Edward R Murrow

                      "Little by little, we have been brought into the present condition in which we are able neither to tolerate the evils from which we suffer, nor the remedies we need to cure them." - Livy


                      "I think that progress has been made by two flames that have always been burning in the human heart. The flame of anger against injustice and the flame of hope that you can build a better world" - Tony Benn

                      Comment


                        Originally posted by Balla Boy View Post
                        ..


                        SOB won't travel, Toner won't start, Best and Kearney must be under pressure. Leinster fans are of the view that Stander is. And POM too (thought I'm not sure I'd agree).

                        Toner will start, given, (se how we copped without him in the 6N). Joe likes CJ but i feel Conan has certainly caught up with him, POM, while not a Joe favorite 2 years ago, certainly is now. Joe might have toyed with dropping RobK in the 6N, to see what else was out there, RobH failed the test, Lamour is still not trusted fully, Addison back in training is the wild card.

                        Nulla semper amicus, servivit mihi, in iniuriam mihi neminem quem non persolvi

                        Comment


                          Is McGrath's Ulster contract a central one? Seems unlikely as second choice and being moved up north. You'd expect Ryan and Stockdale to be next in line when their contracts come up.

                          Comment


                            Originally posted by Sulla View Post

                            Toner will start, given, (se how we copped without him in the 6N). Joe likes CJ but i feel Conan has certainly caught up with him, POM, while not a Joe favorite 2 years ago, certainly is now. Joe might have toyed with dropping RobK in the 6N, to see what else was out there, RobH failed the test, Lamour is still not trusted fully, Addison back in training is the wild card.
                            If Toner is a starter then count us out. He's a passenger in the loose. Nowhere near dynamic enough for a modern lock. Sticking him in because he's easy for a hooker with the yips to hit at line outs is what you'd expect an Under 15's team to do.
                            "We will not walk in fear, one of another. We will not be driven into an age of unreason if we dig deep into our history and remember we are not descended from fearful men" Edward R Murrow

                            "Little by little, we have been brought into the present condition in which we are able neither to tolerate the evils from which we suffer, nor the remedies we need to cure them." - Livy


                            "I think that progress has been made by two flames that have always been burning in the human heart. The flame of anger against injustice and the flame of hope that you can build a better world" - Tony Benn

                            Comment


                              Originally posted by Balla Boy View Post

                              If Toner is a starter then count us out. He's a passenger in the loose. Nowhere near dynamic enough for a modern lock. Sticking him in because he's easy for a hooker with the yips to hit at line outs is what you'd expect an Under 15's team to do.
                              He's very much more than just a lighthouse at lineout time, any student of the game would see that.
                              Nulla semper amicus, servivit mihi, in iniuriam mihi neminem quem non persolvi

                              Comment


                                Originally posted by Balla Boy View Post
                                I'm a big fan of Larmour but the idea that he's reached Zebo's level is pretty fanciful.

                                Zebo is Munster's all time record try scorer. Despite the general consensus that his international career was underwhelming, he has 35 Ireland caps and a Lions Tour under his belt. He's scoring tries for fun in the Top 14.

                                He's 29, and a top class player in the prime of his career. Larmour remains a very promising 22 year old with 39 Leinster caps. Zebo has 26 for Racing.
                                Balla surely you have to admit Zebo's level (at an international level) is nowhere near his club level (his try scoring record is actually worse than McFaddens).

                                Simon Zebo in 35 caps has scored 9 tries - 1 6Nations try in 2013 (15 games), 0 RWC tries (3 games), 2 tries in RWC games and 6 tries in Summer/Winter tour games (15 games).
                                Fergus McFadden in 34 caps has scored 10 tries - 4
                                6Nations tries (18 games), 1 RWC tries (1 game), 0 tries in RWC games and 5 tries in Summer/Winter tour games (11 games).

                                Comment

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