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Ireland u20 6 Nations and World Championship 2019

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    Originally posted by LimerickRugbyFan View Post

    Theres an enormous step-up from 20s to senior rugby in particular HCup. To suggest Healy is ahead of Tyler and JJ already is madness. I agree that he has the potential and is very exciting but thats a huge claim. Also I'm not sure Johnson is up to the top level either.
    agree with you, except on Johnson- its very early days for him at this level and he has done well every time hes had a chance. its hard to see, at this stage, what his ceiling might be, but I feel like we are making progress when we pick him. Another season for JJ like this one and he will have slipped a long way down the pecking order- maybe London Irish when Joey is back? but as always, this depends on fitness, and for me TB will always be a worry.

    Comment


      Originally posted by dropkick View Post
      I googled Ash Ketchum too before I read the next post. Lol

      McCarthy is a strange signing. He has looked poor for Leinster but maybe the change will do him good. I think Casey will pass them all out if he can stay fit and get a chance. Don't think he will get a chance next season due to the number of players ahead of him.

      My 10s in order would be 1 Carbery, 2 Johnston, 3 Healy. Tyler could be used mainly as a 12. Don't know about JJ but he has proved that he doesn't have the kicking game to be a 10.

      Jake Flannery can also play there but has been superb for the U20s at 15. Very intelligent on and off the pitch and he is used as a second playmaker with the U20s and he has been vital cog in the U20s attack.
      ​​​​​He must be a certainty for the academy.​​​​
      You would guess Flannery will be academy next year and yes Ben Healy has done very well but in no way will he or should he be 3rd choice 10 for us next season in Pro14.

      Comment


        Originally posted by LimerickRugbyFan View Post

        Theres an enormous step-up from 20s to senior rugby in particular HCup. To suggest Healy is ahead of Tyler and JJ already is madness. I agree that he has the potential and is very exciting but thats a huge claim. Also I'm not sure Johnson is up to the top level either.

        Madness? Isn't that doing the same thing over again and expecting different results.. hoping for JJ and Tyler to come good.

        ​​​​​
        I'm not talking about HEC but pro14 against Dragons, Zebre etc. JJ has not improved one bit from the time Penney was here and Tyler blows hot and cold so although Healy might make mistakes, I'd rather see a 20 year old make mistakes than a 27 or 29 year old.

        Comment


          Originally posted by dropkick View Post


          Madness? Isn't that doing the same thing over again and expecting different results.. hoping for JJ and Tyler to come good.

          ​​​​​
          I'm not talking about HEC but pro14 against Dragons, Zebre etc. JJ has not improved one bit from the time Penney was here and Tyler blows hot and cold so although Healy might make mistakes, I'd rather see a 20 year old make mistakes than a 27 or 29 year old.
          This would be the Tyler who was nominated for European Player of the Year in the one season he was fully fit and given the starting spot?

          To suggest Healy is anywhere close to his level on the back of some AIL and a single Ireland U20 performance is just nonsense.

          Comment


            Originally posted by Munsterboy View Post

            This would be the Tyler who was nominated for European Player of the Year in the one season he was fully fit and given the starting spot?

            To suggest Healy is anywhere close to his level on the back of some AIL and a single Ireland U20 performance is just nonsense.

            Its not about player A being as good as player B. It's about having a pathway for players. I don't think Botha should have signed for another year, not because he is worse that all the other 8s but to have a pathway for the other 8s.


            There was a bit of a surprise from some when Tyler signed another contract. Many people expected him to leave. I'd say that will tell you more about his performances than I can. He blows hot and cold whether it's because of his injury record or not is besides the point. He was 3rd or 4th choice for the crusaders when Munster signed him.
            ​​​​

            ​​​​​​
            [Quote]
            with Keats leaving we currently have one too many options at 10 and it’s helping nobody. The call should have been made to let Tyler or JJ go. Even with the RWC I’d be perfectly happy with Carbery, Tyler/JJ, Johnston and Healy as academy cover next year.

            That’s the ruthlessness we need. [Quote/]


            Thats your own quote. Only difference with me is I'd used Tyler as a 12 (although I'd put Alex McHenry ahead of him for many games) and I rate Johnston higher than most people.

            Comment


              [QUOTE=dropkick;n2562055]


              Its not about player A being as good as player B. It's about having a pathway for players. I don't think Botha should have signed for another year, not because he is worse that all the other 8s but to have a pathway for the other 8s.


              There was a bit of a surprise from some when Tyler signed another contract. Many people expected him to leave. I'd say that will tell you more about his performances than I can. He blows hot and cold whether it's because of his injury record or not is besides the point. He was 3rd or 4th choice for the crusaders when Munster signed him.
              ​​​​

              ​​​​​​
              with Keats leaving we currently have one too many options at 10 and it’s helping nobody. The call should have been made to let Tyler or JJ go. Even with the RWC I’d be perfectly happy with Carbery, Tyler/JJ, Johnston and Healy as academy cover next year.

              That’s the ruthlessness we need. [Quote/]


              Thats your own quote. Only difference with me is I'd used Tyler as a 12 (although I'd put Alex McHenry ahead of him for many games) and I rate Johnston higher than most people.
              That quote is entirely consistent with my previous post: I’d have Tyler ahead of Johnston and Healy (and I’d have let JJ go). Your suggestion that Healy should be third choice is ridiculous. It would only take a single injury and he’d be benching in the HEC. What evidence have you that he’s ready for that?

              The pathway is clear:

              Joey being away with Ireland, plus the usual injuries, will give both Tyler and Johnston plenty of opportunities to play, with Healy occasionally getting a bench spot.
              Healy will also play plenty of A games and AIL as he continues his development.

              There will only be issues if we try to give JJ game time too,

              Comment


                Originally posted by Munsterboy View Post
                ​​​
                ​​​​
                That quote is entirely consistent with my previous post: I’d have Tyler ahead of Johnston and Healy (and I’d have let JJ go). Your suggestion that Healy should be third choice is ridiculous. It would only take a single injury and he’d be benching in the HEC. What evidence have you that he’s ready for that?

                The pathway is clear:

                Joey being away with Ireland, plus the usual injuries, will give both Tyler and Johnston plenty of opportunities to play, with Healy occasionally getting a bench spot.
                Healy will also play plenty of A games and AIL as he continues his development.

                There will only be issues if we try to give JJ game time too,

                Youre assuming the ranking is set in stone. If Healy was 3rd choice and started the season on fire then why not have him on the bench. If he was struggling then put Tyler ahead of him for the big matches.


                I think Munster have to be a bit more proactive in bringing through young players. That means potentially taking risks. Leinsters 3rd choice is Frawley who hasn't much experience. They're willing to back him. Joe Schmidt capped James Ryan before he played a game for Leinster. Larmour and Porter were capped at an early age too. I don't see why Healy playing against Zebre, Dragons and Kings etc is a big deal. He can handle it physically and he seems to be calm on the pitch.


                ​​​

                Comment


                  Originally posted by dropkick View Post


                  Youre assuming the ranking is set in stone. If Healy was 3rd choice and started the season on fire then why not have him on the bench. If he was struggling then put Tyler ahead of him for the big matches.


                  I think Munster have to be a bit more proactive in bringing through young players. That means potentially taking risks. Leinsters 3rd choice is Frawley who hasn't much experience. They're willing to back him. Joe Schmidt capped James Ryan before he played a game for Leinster. Larmour and Porter were capped at an early age too. I don't see why Healy playing against Zebre, Dragons and Kings etc is a big deal. He can handle it physically and he seems to be calm on the pitch.


                  ​​​
                  Being fourth choice he has a good chance of playing against Zebre, Dragons and Kings. Those are the games they blood young lads in.

                  Frawley played U20 for Ireland two years ago and is only breaking through as third choice now, which seems about right.

                  Comment


                    Some in here have worries about the coaching ticket- for me too soon to tell. However, one worry I don’t have about them is the preparedness to introduce younger players, and to reward promise. Of course there will always be an issue about this guy or that, but at a rough guess we’ve had 10 players this season, not near the squad who have featured a few times, and for the most part we’ve kept winning and improving.

                    Comment


                      Originally posted by dropkick View Post


                      Madness? Isn't that doing the same thing over again and expecting different results.. hoping for JJ and Tyler to come good.

                      ​​​​​
                      I'm not talking about HEC but pro14 against Dragons, Zebre etc. JJ has not improved one bit from the time Penney was here and Tyler blows hot and cold so although Healy might make mistakes, I'd rather see a 20 year old make mistakes than a 27 or 29 year old.
                      Its madness to put a guy only playing adult rugby since August ahead of these pros with experience etc

                      Comment


                        Originally posted by dropkick View Post
                        Its not about player A being as good as player B. It's about having a pathway for players. I don't think Botha should have signed for another year, not because he is worse that all the other 8s but to have a pathway for the other 8s.

                        There was a bit of a surprise from some when Tyler signed another contract. Many people expected him to leave. I'd say that will tell you more about his performances than I can. He blows hot and cold whether it's because of his injury record or not is besides the point. He was 3rd or 4th choice for the crusaders when Munster signed him.
                        ​​​​
                        And we have a very clear player pathway in Ireland and just ignoring older guys in favour of next new thing coming through at under 20 grade isnt the answer or solution to anything

                        Comment


                          Craig Casey and Harry Byrne are out and replaced by Cormac Foley and Ben Healy in the starting team with Colm Reilly and Iwan Hughes added to the bench.

                          Comment


                            Originally posted by ormond lad View Post
                            Craig Casey and Harry Byrne are out and replaced by Cormac Foley and Ben Healy in the starting team with Colm Reilly and Iwan Hughes added to the bench.
                            Shame to be losing the pair of them
                            "There are a lot of points that we’ve left behind and this is with a young group. That probably tells you what they’re capable of and that they’re a very good side.

                            Probably next year or the year after next they will take some stopping"

                            Anthony Foley, May 2016. Axel RIP

                            Comment


                              Originally posted by Waterfordlad View Post

                              Shame to be losing the pair of them
                              Ben did well last week and both guys onto bench are top class guys. Reffed Colm few times and Iwan well in demand as eligible for england, wales and Ireland. Big shame to not have either playing but gives a chance for another couple of guys to step up.

                              Comment


                                Originally posted by ormond lad View Post
                                Ben did well last week and both guys onto bench are top class guys. Reffed Colm few times and Iwan well in demand as eligible for england, wales and Ireland. Big shame to not have either playing but gives a chance for another couple of guys to step up.
                                Thanks Ormond lad, I'm not very familiar with then
                                "There are a lot of points that we’ve left behind and this is with a young group. That probably tells you what they’re capable of and that they’re a very good side.

                                Probably next year or the year after next they will take some stopping"

                                Anthony Foley, May 2016. Axel RIP

                                Comment

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