IRB Rankings

[Daithi]

Of course you should, I mean that's just basic common sense. The coaches were ringing each other beforehand to decide what type of sides and run outs they wanted sure!?

[Piquet]

I don't say this a lot, but I agree with OL. It's a good system.

You gain Ranking Points when you win a match, gaining more points for beating a team that is ranked higher than you, the bigger the gap, the more points you gain.

Similarly, you lose points if you lose, losing more if the team is ranked below you.

If the gap in Ranking Points is ten or more,then you gain nowt for the win but you lose two for a loss.

The gap in Ranking Points is adjusted to allow for home advantage and gains and losses are doubled for World Cup matches and multiplied by 1.5, if the margin is 15 points or more.

A possible tweak might be to multiply gains and losses for "non-competitive*" games by 0.75.


* this definition would have to be agreed but how about all non-6-Nations and non-Championship matches?

[Daithi]

Okay I'll bite:
without having a clue about how the system currently operates:

- I presume it weights competitive games v tests ( say x 2, or 1.5)?

- I presume it weights results in world cup over all else?? (Say x 2)

I presume it has a recency weighting e.g Ireland being beaten by England & Wales in the spring, & England again in August, say, should surely now count for more relatively, than beating those same sides in the spring of 2018???

Loads of other sports run very good ranking systems e.g tennis, golf, etc so surely rugby can also!?

[Munsterboy]

Okay I'll bite:
without having a clue about how the system currently operates:

- I presume it weights competitive games v tests ( say x 2, or 1.5)?

- I presume it weights results in world cup over all else?? (Say x 2)

I presume it has a recency weighting e.g Ireland being beaten by England & Wales in the spring, & England again in August, say, should surely now count for more relatively, than beating those same sides in the spring of 2018???

Loads of other sports run very good ranking systems e.g tennis, golf, etc so surely rugby can also!?

Honestly Daithi, at least take the trouble to have a look before going “I presume this, therefore I think that” and having a go.

The people who came up with these didn’t pull them out of their arses. The RWC warm-ups did throw things out of whack but that was temporary and they’re back to normal now and look about right.

Besides, they’re just rankings, who really cares?

[Daithi]

Honestly Daithi, at least take the trouble to have a look before going “I presume this, therefore I think that” and having a go.
...
Besides, they’re just rankings, who really cares?

Mb, I only stated in that post what I presumed was logical, I never stated what I think at all.

But I think one can infer from piquet's excellent post that they don't underweight RWC warm up matches, which is as you suggest, is like they plucked it out of their arses.

Also, since Ireland went into RWC19 ranked number one, hello !?, I think it's fair to assume they either don't weight results for recency enough, or at all. Arse indeed.

Finally, the rankings are quite important cos:

1. They dictate the seedings & hence the draw for each RWC
2. They impact on things like sponsorship agreements, & contracts, (coaches, players) etc and a few trivial matters like that
3. They inform current commentary on the game, and leading up to tests between sides, 'Ireland the number one ranked side in the world are playing Wales ranked 2,...yada,yada, yada'

so you know, it would be kinda nice if they could at least get close to actuality in assessing teams through the ranking system imho.

[Piquet]

There is no weighting given to recent games over "historical" games.

Any other info you need, have a look at Post 108 above.

In any ranking system, there will be the odd period where a particular person or team has a run of results which either boosts or diminishes their ranking.

Things tend to even out over time.

As I said above maybe if friendlies were de-weighted, it might improve things a bit.

[Munsterboy]

Mb, I only stated in that post what I presumed was logical, I never stated what I think at all.

But I think one can infer from piquet's excellent post that they don't underweight RWC warm up matches, which is as you suggest, is like they plucked it out of their arses.

Also, since Ireland went into RWC19 ranked number one, hello !?, I think it's fair to assume they either don't weight results for recency enough, or at all. Arse indeed.

Finally, the rankings are quite important cos:

1. They dictate the seedings & hence the draw for each RWC
2. They impact on things like sponsorship agreements, & contracts, (coaches, players) etc and a few trivial matters like that
3. They inform current commentary on the game, and leading up to tests between sides, 'Ireland the number one ranked side in the world are playing Wales ranked 2,...yada,yada, yada'

so you know, it would be kinda nice if they could at least get close to actuality in assessing teams through the ranking system imho.

Yawn. Still making it up as you go along, rather than just looking it up.

[Daithi]

Yawn. Still making it up as you go along, rather than just looking it up.

And what exactly are you contributing here!?

Yawn is right!!

P.s. funnily enough did you notice all my assumptions & deductions were correct, and that the system is a crock!?

[Sulla]

1. SA 94.19
2. NZ 92.11
3.Eng 88.82
4. Wales 85.02
5. Irl 84.45

No more change until the 6N. Victories over Wales & Eng would push us up, loss to France and back down..

snakes & ladders

[hayeser]

I think two things that Irish fans have realised in 2019 are the whole ranking system is no gauge of form and that tests as in Autumn international style tests aren't much better. Tests and tours had their day in the amateur era but we have World Cup and Champions Cups to focus on now days. Bigger fish to fry. Winning tests isn't the be all and end all any more. I'm not implying they are at the level of soccer friendlies or anything but they are primarily for trying out players and tactics now days even if that does mean shipping defeats. It's a pity we were one of the last to twig this.

[Piquet]

After yesterday's games, Ireland have gained 0.178 points to go to 84.63. Wales gained nowt, being more than ten points ahead of Italy so they stay at 85.02.

Adjusting for home advantage, Ireland will be 2.61 ahead next week. A win by 14 or fewer would gain them 0.739, lose Wales the same amount and Ireland would overtake Wales and go fourth.

If England were to lose in both Paris and Embra, Ireland would go third.

[Miguel Sanchez]

We were world No.1 before the RWC. That didn't really help.

[jagawayagain]

We were world No.1 before the RWC. That didn't really help.

Was nice while it lasted though, albeit shown to be pretty meaningless.

[Sulla]

France swap with Wales to 5th, Scotland jump Japan to 8th.

All else the same, France now 1.05 behind us and 4th

[Piquet]

Because Ireland are well ahead of Italy, no points will be gained if Ireland beat them next time out. A loss would lose them 2 points and a draw would lose them 1 point.

France (83.86) are away to Scotland (79.55) so Scotland's ranking will be increased by 3, bringing their ranking to 82.55 and the gap to 1.31.

A win for France would gain them (and lose Scotland) 0.87. Ireland would stay fourth unless they failed to beat Italy.

A French win by 15 or more, would gain them 1.3 and they would overtake Ireland.

Wales (82.79) are away to England (88.25) so the gap is 8.46. A win for Wales would gain them 1.85, not enough to overtake Ireland unless they failed to beat Italy or France unless they failed to beat Scotland.

A Welsh win by 15 or more would gain them 2.77 and they would overtake England, France and Ireland.