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    #16


    Originally posted by neiljung
    Dermot, it will go down if we lose (you always lose ranking points when you lose a game) Incorrect, you will not automatically gain points by winning a game eitherthough not by much considering the points difference and the fact we're playing away.

    [img]smileys/smiley37.gif[/img]


    Look at the posts above by EO and RobbieG. Did Wales andScotlandlose last weekend as well as us. Have any of our rankings changed. Similary NZ, SA and Arg all won yet remained on the same points.


    Comment


      #17
      Originally posted by dermotmccarthy


      Look at the posts above by EO and RobbieG. Did Wales andScotlandlose last weekend as well as us. Have any of our rankings changed. Similary NZ, SA and Arg all won yet remained on the same points.


      In other words, meaningless friendlies are, generally speaking, meaningless.


      (who? ain't going to like this!)





      New infraction avoidance policy: a post may be described as imbecilic, but its author should never be described as an imbecile.

      Comment


        #18
        The IRB World Rankings are calculated using a 'Points
        Exchange' system, in which sides take points off each other
        based on the match result. Whatever one side gains, the other
        loses.

        The exchanges are based on the match result, the relative
        strength of each team, and the margin of victory, and there is an
        allowance for home advantage.

        Points exchanges are doubled during the World Cup Finals to
        recognise the unique importance of this event, @@@@SPAN style="font-weight: bold;">but all other full
        international matches are treated the same,@@@@/SPAN> to be as fair as
        possible to countries playing a different mix of friendly and
        competitive matches across the world.

        Comment


          #19
          Originally posted by neiljung
          The IRB World Rankings are calculated using a 'Points Exchange' system, in which sides take points off each other based on the match result. Whatever one side gains, the other loses.


          The exchanges are based on the match result, the relative strength of each team, and the margin of victory, and there is an allowance for home advantage.


          Points exchanges are doubled during the World Cup Finals to recognise the unique importance of this event, @@@@SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">but all other full international matches are treated the same,@@@@/SPAN> to be as fair as possible to countries playing a different mix of friendly and competitive matches across the world.


          Neil take it from me what I posted above is correct


          Points exchange from last weekend NZ +0pts Irl -0pts, SA +0pts Wal -0pts and finally Arg +0pts Sco -0pts[img]smileys/lol.gif[/img]


          It is all to do with algorithms,I was taughtmany moons ago by one of the peoplewho advised theIRB when they set up the ranking system.

          Comment


            #20

            Originally posted by dermotmccarthy
            Originally posted by neiljung
            The IRB World Rankings are calculated using a 'Points Exchange' system, in which sides take points off each other based on the match result. Whatever one side gains, the other loses.


            The exchanges are based on the match result, the relative strength of each team, and the margin of victory, and there is an allowance for home advantage.


            Points exchanges are doubled during the World Cup Finals to recognise the unique importance of this event, @@@@SPAN style="font-weight: bold;">but all other full international matches are treated the same,@@@@/SPAN> to be as fair as possible to countries playing a different mix of friendly and competitive matches across the world.


            Neil take it from me what I posted above is correct


            Points exchange from last weekend NZ +0pts Irl -0pts, SA +0pts Wal -0pts and finally Arg +0pts Sco -0pts[img]smileys/lol.gif[/img]


            It is all to do with algorithms,I was taughtmany moons ago by one of the peoplewho advised theIRB when they set up the ranking system.
            Is that just because the gap in ranking between all those pairs is so big at the moment? Head too sore to work it out at the moment. WOuld have expected some movement in the SA and Welsh points.

            Comment


              #21


              Originally posted by neiljung
              Is that just because the gap in ranking between all those pairs is so big at the moment? Head too sore to work it out at the moment. WOuld have expected some movement in the SA and Welsh points.

              Yes more or less, when the higher ranked team (with a ranking over 84.00)is at home the gap would have to be just under 7pts (off the top of my head) for there to be any exchange of points and even then it would by miniscule.

              Comment


                #22
                Guys, I still stick by the same thing, if we can't maintain 8th position with a team from the squad out there we don't deserve to be 8th. As for this "field the first team" stuff, how do you know what's our best team? We do know the existing first team isn't good enough so how can they automatically be the best?

                Comment


                  #23


                  After Scotlands win in BA yesterday here is how it will probably pan out in November for us to remain in the top 8


                  If Scotland lose to NZ and SA we have to beat either NZ or Argentina


                  If Scotland beat NZ or SA we may have to beat Argentina by 15+pts,no matter what we do against NZ


                  If Scotland beat NZ and SA we are fupped


                  If both Us and Scotland lose all 4 games against SH opposition Fiji will be in the top 8

                  Comment


                    #24

                    Originally posted by dermotmccarthy

                    After Scotlands win in BA yesterday here is how it will probably pan out in November for us to remain in the top 8


                    If Scotland lose to NZ and SA we have to beat either NZ or Argentina


                    If Scotland beat NZ or SA we may have to beat Argentina by 15+pts,no matter what we do against NZ


                    If Scotland beat NZ and SA we are fupped
                    If both Us and Scotland lose all 4 games against SH opposition Fiji will be in the top 8
                    that is possibly the final result!! unfortunately....
                    as the one realistic win of the 4 games is us against the Pumas....and that will be one hell of a war..
                    I\'m gonna make it a habit to not stop and talk to students because this has been a colossal waste of my time!

                    Comment


                      #25


                      if france loose both tests againest the wallabies will we go ahead of them???





                      After all they're bringing a 2nd string team

                      Comment


                        #26
                        Originally posted by Big-al


                        if france loose both tests againest the wallabies will we go ahead of them???


                        After all they're bringing a 2nd string team


                        No, in fact they can afford to lose against Argentina and the Wallabies as wellin the Autumn all by more than 15pts and unless we beat NZ and Argentina they will still be above us.

                        Comment


                          #27


                          Well hopefully Kearney being the best back of the tour will have woken some people up to this rubbish that we have to play the established first team in these games to get anywhere. We need to play the guys who are going to do something on that pitch. Right now both hookers, both SHs and 1 wing are under pressure and shouldn't necessarilly just be the autumn players. Are we going to end up outside the top 8 if we don't field them? Possibly. Are we going to end up there if we do? Again possibly. Players like Wallace and Kearney need to be persevered with as they showed some form and performance in the summer. Before the tour how many were screaming we shouldn't be "experimenting" like that. Now how many can genuinely argue others should come in ahead of them?


                          Ultimately if we end up #9 or #10 then that's down to several years of s**te and playinganother autumn of the same faces to make up for that isn't as constructive as trying to builda squad that can perform against anyone. If we went into the next WC with a set of players who've been developed to the point where they can beat any side in the world then who gives a flying if we're 2nd tier or 3rd tier. If we manage to scrape into 8th place and go into the next WC without any experience and potentially an ageing squad then we'll be f**ked anyway and the 3rd tier side in our group will possibly beat us.


                          Who we select in the autumn has a direct effect on who plays in 6N. We only have a couple of months of rugby between and players need to be used to the national set up and level before you throw them into 6N. We then have a lions tour in the summer which means our tour, if one happens, might be pretty muted, which leaves us with1 season (or less) to prepare for the next WC. Everyone else will be on at least a 2 year cycle for this. We can't keep screwing this up (EOS fashion) in the desparate hope that the most capped team in the history of the game (no exagaration) might come good when the evidence is clear that the squad needs change.

                          Comment


                            #28


                            If the proposed match in the UAE against the Saffers goes ahead it could work in our favour in staying above Scotland and Fiji


                            Won't lose ranking points if we lose and will gain points if we beat them.





                            Comment


                              #29


                              I still think ultimately whatever happens is what happens and if we get that hung up about being #8 in the world in December 2008, 3 years before the next world cup, then we're going to be in trouble.

                              Comment


                                #30


                                http://www.irb.com/rankings/news/new...1.html#wales+c limb+place+back+french+loss


                                Wales climb one place on back of French loss
                                Wales are the only movers in the top 10 of the latest IRB World Rankings, climbing one place to sixth despite losing 29-9 to New Zealand with France falling to seventh on the back of their loss to Australia on Saturday.
                                Although the All Blacks defended their 55-year unbeaten record against the Welsh with victory at the Millennium Stadium, they only improved their rating points by twohundredths to remain on top of the rankings with Wales’ total slipping to 79.55.
                                France’s 18-13 loss to the third ranked Wallabies at the Stade de France on Saturday evening was more costly, resulting in a 0.64 decrease in their rating points to 79.49 and dropping them below Wales into seventh.
                                CLICK HERE FOR THE FULL RANKINGS>>
                                The position of sixth or seventh will make no difference to France when it comes to the Rugby World Cup 2011 Pool Allocation Draw on 1 December as the sides ranked fourth to seventh will be seeded in band two and drawn randomly into the pools.
                                There could have been one other change involving Argentina and England and the race to secure fourth place and so join alongside New Zealand, South Africa and Australia in band one and avoid being drawn in the same pool as these heavyweights.
                                Argentina and England both suffered defeats on Saturday, the Pumas losing 17-3 to Ireland at Croke Park while Martin Johnson’s side suffered a record 42-6 defeat by South Africa at Twickenham in a repeat of the RWC 2007 final.
                                The defeats mean that both sides saw their rating points fall but had Ronan O’Gara converted Tommy Bowe’s late try to push Ireland out to a victory of more than 15 points then Argentina would have still slipped beneath England into fifth.
                                England will have another opportunity to sneak into fourth when they face New Zealand at Twickenham on Saturday, a match which will see the All Blacks trying to complete their grand slam tour having already beaten Scotland, Ireland and Wales.
                                Ireland, who would have slipped out of the top eight had they lost to the Pumas, have improved their rating points, but still sit just over a point behind France above them with Scotland, the 41-0 conquerors of Canada this weekend, remaining ninth.
                                Czechs on the climb in Europe
                                Away from the Autumn internationals in Europe, there were two other tests involving sides in the top 20 with Japan closing the gap slightly to Canada in 15th by completing the double over USA Eagles with a 32-17 victory in Tokyo.
                                The Eagles remain 19th, although now less than a rating point above Uruguay who were convincing 46-12 winners over Chile in the 2008 South American Championship in Montevideo. Chile remain 24th despite the defeat, albeit now only two hundredths above Namibia with Germany less than a tenth further adrift.
                                The only other match to impact the IRB World Rankings this weekend came in the European Nations Cup, which doubles as the region’s qualifying process for Rugby World Cup 2011.
                                Czech Republic edged a tight affair with Moldova in Division 2A, the home side triumphing 11-9 in Prague to climb two places to 37th at the expense of Uganda and Kenya, while Moldova slid five places to 36th.
                                The other European Nations Cup encounters saw Israel beat Greece 25-10 in Division 3C and Bosnia & Herzegovina defeat Azerbaijan 18-7 in Division 3D, but neither o

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