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World Cup - The Lessons Learnt

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    #76
    Originally posted by whimpersnap View Post
    I think you have far too much faith in players' willingness to accept less money.

    What choice do they have? If they're playing less rugby and are less valued members of the squad, they'll get less pay. Its the same situation as we currently have.


    The market will balance itself out. Theres another way of looking at it too. I gave the example of how it could save team's money. Another example is competition for places. The more competition for places the less a team has to pay players and the star players can't demand as much money because they could be replaced. Jamie Heaslip and Sexton are the highest paid players in Ireland I believe. Both have no real rivals so their value goes up and they can demand a high price.


    Originally posted by ormond lad View Post
    If provinces were able to compete against one another when theyre not currently wages would only go one way and that isn't down....

    Can you give me an example?

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      #77
      Originally posted by dropkick View Post
      What choice do they have? If they're playing less rugby and are less valued members of the squad, they'll get less pay. Its the same situation as we currently have.


      The market will balance itself out. Theres another way of looking at it too. I gave the example of how it could save team's money. Another example is competition for places. The more competition for places the less a team has to pay players and the star players can't demand as much money because they could be replaced. Jamie Heaslip and Sexton are the highest paid players in Ireland I believe. Both have no real rivals so their value goes up and they can demand a high price.
      What you propose isn't the same and wouldn't be the same. How would "the market balance itself out"

      Can you give me an example?
      Player can use different provinces as bargaining chips to get a better wage just like they can with any other team. Wage ends up higher.

      Comment


        #78
        Players thank Paul for his service. Moving video.


        Comment


          #79
          Originally posted by ormond lad View Post
          What you propose isn't the same and wouldn't be the same. How would "the market balance itself out"

          Player can use different provinces as bargaining chips to get a better wage just like they can with any other team. Wage ends up higher.

          Players have been using French clubs as bargaining chips for years and those clubs are more powerful bargaining chips than Irish provinces because they've more money.


          The market will balance itself out if its free to do so. From a provines point of view they have x amount of money to spend on wages and that has to be split 40 to 50 ways. How its split doesn't matter. The provinces have a choice on who to sign and what to pay them but as I said, they have to also balance the books.


          So going back to my example, if Munster were to sign Tadhg Furlong, they might have to let a winger (for example) go since they have enough wingers already. The squad would be weaker out wide but the front row strengthened. Would that cause inflation? Well, there would be a winger out of a job and they wouldn't need to sign another tighthead. The extra money spent on the prop would mean some taken away from the wing. Thats business as usual for any team with the exception of the likes of Toulon. The provinces are always calculating where to strengthen and that involves the coaching staff and the money men.


          Theres only so much money to go around. If the players start asking for more than the IRFU/provinces can afford, the IRFU/provinces can just say no, like they did with Sexton. The players and their agents already have a good understanding of how much they can get off the provinces so there won't be any drastic changes.

          Comment


            #80
            It'll never happen.
            Yorn desh born, der ritt de gitt der gue,
            Orn desh, dee born desh, de umn bork! bork! bork!

            Comment


              #81
              Originally posted by Eire12gael View Post
              Players thank Paul for his service. Moving video.


              It's a nice video but anybody who puts a hashtag in the title of a video should be locked in the Tower of London, throw away the keys, no appeal.

              Comment


                #82
                in reply to post 37

                agree and said similar on the other "Joe Out" thread

                I would consider Copeland also among others and as I said this is not Red mist descending ......
                Last edited by SkullinPints; 22-October-2015, 23:14. Reason: forgot quote :-)
                "I've got lots of potatos that need peeling and manure that needs shovelling" -M. Burns :_skull__rvmp_by_bad

                Comment


                  #83
                  Originally posted by sewa View Post
                  There is loads of player moving going on already, where do people think Felix, Keatley, Conway, Coughlan etc come from? You can't however start forcing players to move where they don't want to
                  You can't. But really it's just a cultural thing. In Australia, the AFL draft young players and they end up wherever they are drafted. They could be 3000km away from their home. And you know what? They just do it in order to play football and get ahead. The same in rugby and also in New Zealand in Super Rugby.

                  Ireland is a tiny country comparatively and moving from Dublin to Connacht is hardly asking a professional sportsman to say goodbye to his family and friends forever.

                  I agree you can't force people but they need to be incentivised and cultural change within the game can assist.

                  Steve Hansen said that Northern Hemisphere teams have too many imports and we're all so worried about our best going overseas. But maybe rather than signing Uruguyan props, Munster should have the ability to swap a surplus player in another position for a Tadgh Furlong or a Marty Moore.

                  Comment


                    #84
                    Originally posted by Kevin77 View Post
                    You can't. But really it's just a cultural thing. In Australia, the AFL draft young players and they end up wherever they are drafted. They could be 3000km away from their home. And you know what? They just do it in order to play football and get ahead. The same in rugby and also in New Zealand in Super Rugby.

                    Ireland is a tiny country comparatively and moving from Dublin to Connacht is hardly asking a professional sportsman to say goodbye to his family and friends forever.

                    I agree you can't force people but they need to be incentivised and cultural change within the game can assist.

                    Steve Hansen said that Northern Hemisphere teams have too many imports and we're all so worried about our best going overseas. But maybe rather than signing Uruguyan props, Munster should have the ability to swap a surplus player in another position for a Tadgh Furlong or a Marty Moore.
                    Where do we have surplus players? We can barely field a side, we even had to cancel our A game.

                    Also both Furlong and Moore are regular Ireland players, why would they move now that Ross is pretty much done?
                    My computer thinks I'm gay
                    What's the difference anyway
                    When all the people do all day
                    Is stare into a phone

                    Comment


                      #85
                      Past Munster players on lessons learnt:
                      Keith Wood doesn't seem to think that anything should change; injuries were the problem.
                      ROG completely and entirely dismissed any talk of change to the JoeBall system and says 'Rugby is about winning' http://www.independent.ie/sport/rugb...-34132874.html (someone should show him a few clps of Munster vs Toulouse 2000)



                      four offloads in this clip of ROG's try against Toulouse, the last one an absolute peach.


                      DAvid WAllace thinks that a new approach should be considered and a four year plan initiated and says it's 'time to change philosophy and leave percentages behind' http://www.independent.ie/sport/rugb...-34132239.html

                      Comment


                        #86
                        Thats simply genius Brenny, I've knicked that clip. We can't offload ffs
                        My computer thinks I'm gay
                        What's the difference anyway
                        When all the people do all day
                        Is stare into a phone

                        Comment


                          #87
                          Originally posted by Brenny View Post
                          Past Munster players on lessons learnt:
                          Keith Wood doesn't seem to think that anything should change; injuries were the problem.
                          ROG completely and entirely dismissed any talk of change to the JoeBall system and says 'Rugby is about winning' http://www.independent.ie/sport/rugb...-34132874.html (someone should show him a few clps of Munster vs Toulouse 2000)



                          four offloads in this clip of ROG's try against Toulouse, the last one an absolute peach.


                          DAvid WAllace thinks that a new approach should be considered and a four year plan initiated and says it's 'time to change philosophy and leave percentages behind' http://www.independent.ie/sport/rugb...-34132239.html


                          and like the Argies bring in a NZ coach to drive the transformation.......oh wait !!
                          Anybody who sees a psychiatrist would want their head examined. &nb sp;Henry Ford

                          Comment


                            #88
                            Originally posted by cornerboy View Post
                            [/B]
                            and like the Argies bring in a NZ coach to drive the transformation.......oh wait !!
                            Yeah, and the ironic thing is the Argies were playing caveman rugby around that time, the kind of stuff you'd see on a wet day between two Limerick junior teams

                            Comment


                              #89
                              Great article on the contrast in styles & stats between the NH & SH sides who contested the RWC qfs last weekend

                              http://www.independent.ie/sport/rugb...-34121176.html

                              Food for thought for all our coaches hopefully.
                              ____________________________________________
                              Munster were great when they were Munster.

                              alas they are just north munster now.......
                              ____________________________________________

                              Comment


                                #90


                                offload anyone?

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