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Ireland at the RWC 2015 Thread.

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    Originally posted by CP09 View Post
    I'd disagree with some of that but it's a fair enough assessment. I guess there are just two ways of looking at the squad selection.

    At the end of the day, Joe's just looking to win the world cup. I don't know what benefit it would be to him to arbitrarily favour Leinster players... It's not like he's got some agenda or ulterior motive
    Bent ahead of Cronin or Buckley is ludicrous and the excuse that he in some respect covers tight head is an insult to people's intelligence.

    Comment


      Originally posted by CP09 View Post
      I'd disagree with some of that but it's a fair enough assessment. I guess there are just two ways of looking at the squad selection.

      At the end of the day, Joe's just looking to win the world cup. I don't know what benefit it would be to him to arbitrarily favour Leinster players... It's not like he's got some agenda or ulterior motive
      Leinster is down to one coach at the moment - Leo. Richie Murphy the Skills Coach will be with Ireland, Scrum coach got the bullet, Girvan & John Fogarty have the Academy/underage teams to prepare for the interpros and an underage tour (thats if Girvan is back from the Emerging Ireland tour yet) - This is probably the Academy's busiest time of the year.

      Simplest thing is for all the senior Leinster players who would be coachless back in Leinster to join up with Ireland (since Joe & Nucifora gave the final push to get rid of O'Connor, its the least they could do).

      What would Bent do on his own back with Leinster - with no team mates to train with and no scrum coach.

      Comment


        Originally posted by jeepers View Post
        Leinster is down to one coach at the moment - Leo. Richie Murphy the Skills Coach will be with Ireland, Scrum coach got the bullet, Girvan & John Fogarty have the Academy/underage teams to prepare for the interpros and an underage tour (thats if Girvan is back from the Emerging Ireland tour yet) - This is probably the Academy's busiest time of the year.

        Simplest thing is for all the senior Leinster players who would be coachless back in Leinster to join up with Ireland (since Joe & Nucifora gave the final push to get rid of O'Connor, its the least they could do).

        What would Bent do on his own back with Leinster - with no team mates to train with and no scrum coach.
        Its absolutely ridiculous to suggest JS would bring in Leinster players just for training purposes because they have no coach. Ridiculous. I'm not a massive JS fan either but that's just a gombeen suggestion.

        I've asked two posters here to outline which Leinster players they have an issue with and the alternatives. And neither has responded. Just a fishing trip then so

        If you left Bent out of it you're on thin ice
        I always knew Madigan was a closet Scrum Half. Ignore All things that suggest Continuity.

        Comment


          Originally posted by The Outlaw View Post
          Its absolutely ridiculous to suggest JS would bring in Leinster players just for training purposes because they have no coach. Ridiculous. I'm not a massive JS fan either but that's just a gombeen suggestion.

          I've asked two posters here to outline which Leinster players they have an issue with and the alternatives. And neither has responded. Just a fishing trip then so

          If you left Bent out of it you're on thin ice
          couple of points, Outlaw

          - agree, no way would JS do that. i like JS, but he does always come down on the side of leinster players when there is a tight call. he may well feel he has to go with what he knows best
          - the players people are surprised to see in the squad have been listed several times throughout this thread. and also listed are the players who people think are unlucky. you don't need to be spoonfed
          - bent at TH is a huge risk

          Comment


            Originally posted by hellovating View Post
            couple of points, Outlaw

            - agree, no way would JS do that. i like JS, but he does always come down on the side of leinster players when there is a tight call. he may well feel he has to go with what he knows best
            - the players people are surprised to see in the squad have been listed several times throughout this thread. and also listed are the players who people think are unlucky. you don't need to be spoonfed
            - bent at TH is a huge risk
            All four are Leinster players and all four are third choice for Leinster (Bent is actually their fourth choice TH). That smacks of bias. Not one of them is up to this level.

            Comment


              Originally posted by CP09 View Post
              I'd disagree with some of that but it's a fair enough assessment. I guess there are just two ways of looking at the squad selection.

              At the end of the day, Joe's just looking to win the world cup. I don't know what benefit it would be to him to arbitrarily favour Leinster players... It's not like he's got some agenda or ulterior motive
              Best explanation I've heard on here was that Joe was risking his chances of getting the ABs job and picking all Leinster players so as to keep his mates at the Evening Herald happy.

              Originally posted by jeepers View Post
              Leinster is down to one coach at the moment - Leo. Richie Murphy the Skills Coach will be with Ireland, Scrum coach got the bullet, Girvan & John Fogarty have the Academy/underage teams to prepare for the interpros and an underage tour (thats if Girvan is back from the Emerging Ireland tour yet) - This is probably the Academy's busiest time of the year.

              Simplest thing is for all the senior Leinster players who would be coachless back in Leinster to join up with Ireland (since Joe & Nucifora gave the final push to get rid of O'Connor, its the least they could do).

              What would Bent do on his own back with Leinster - with no team mates to train with and no scrum coach.
              Fogarty has been promoted - the underage teams have nothing to do with him anymore. The As don't play until the middle of October so Dempsey will be able to devote most of his time to the first team, and half of the first team will be the As anyway. McQuilkin is there too.
              Last edited by whimpersnap; 27th-June-2015, 17:20.

              Comment


                Originally posted by CP09 View Post
                I'd disagree with some of that but it's a fair enough assessment. I guess there are just two ways of looking at the squad selection.

                At the end of the day, Joe's just looking to win the world cup. I don't know what benefit it would be to him to arbitrarily favour Leinster players... It's not like he's got some agenda or ulterior motive
                He's not doing it to piss people off. It's simply that his judgement is flawed because he coached these lads and is making the same mistake many coaches make - going with the lad he knows even though, to any impartial observer it's a dumb call.

                Comment


                  hasn't Jack McGrath played TH? what's he like there? worse than Bent?

                  that's if he has his mind on 5 props, 1 of whom can play both sides. with the WC on in England, is there any need for such a selection policy. say he picks just two THs, can't a third (furlong) be flown in without any fuss at an hours notice if there is an injury?

                  personally i'd just pick healy, mcgrath, killer, ross, moore and furlong.... there is loads of scope for mixing and matching when you have the likes of henderson, murphy, fitzgerald, earls and zebo in the squad.

                  Comment


                    Originally posted by The Outlaw View Post
                    Its absolutely ridiculous to suggest JS would bring in Leinster players just for training purposes because they have no coach. Ridiculous. I'm not a massive JS fan either but that's just a gombeen suggestion.

                    I've asked two posters here to outline which Leinster players they have an issue with and the alternatives. And neither has responded. Just a fishing trip then so

                    If you left Bent out of it you're on thin ice
                    I suspect there might have been an element of irony in Jeepers post.

                    Comment


                      Originally posted by hellovating View Post
                      hasn't Jack McGrath played TH? what's he like there? worse than Bent?

                      that's if he has his mind on 5 props, 1 of whom can play both sides. with the WC on in England, is there any need for such a selection policy. say he picks just two THs, can't a third (furlong) be flown in without any fuss at an hours notice if there is an injury?
                      I assume the idea of bringing 5 props is so you can bring an extra back. In Joe's case, it'll be another specialist full back, he loves those.

                      Comment


                        Joe is simply doing what any coach would do.

                        When he see's a choice between 2 players he is going for the player he knows and has worked with before. Nothing surprising about that, its human nature tbh.


                        However, we had years of whinging when Kidney did the same so there should be no complaining now about the complaining now.

                        Comment


                          Originally posted by whimpersnap View Post
                          I assume the idea of bringing 5 props is so you can bring an extra back. In Joe's case, it'll be another specialist full back, he loves those.
                          i guess it is. i'd be much happier with zebo or earls filling in at full back than bent filling in at TH. someone should show him tom court filling in at TH in twickenham a few years ago.

                          kearney, payne, henshaw, zebo, earls, fitzgerald, bowe.... there are fewer backs who haven't played full back.
                          Last edited by hellovating; 27th-June-2015, 18:06.

                          Comment


                            Originally posted by hellovating View Post
                            couple of points, Outlaw

                            - agree, no way would JS do that. i like JS, but he does always come down on the side of leinster players when there is a tight call. he may well feel he has to go with what he knows best
                            - the players people are surprised to see in the squad have been listed several times throughout this thread. and also listed are the players who people think are unlucky. you don't need to be spoonfed
                            - bent at TH is a huge risk
                            In relation to Bent I agree but if you're talking about form Cronin hasn't got any and Denis Buckley has. If you're being fair that's who should be there.

                            Noel Reid is a different type of centre to Mc Closkey. Ulster often pick Cave ahead of Mc Closkey too. Is Mc Closkey realy at a WC level? I don't think so and in my view Reid is ahead of him in his development.

                            Issac Boss. Clearly offers more then a Peter Stringer. It's not even an argument that one. There is 4 scrum halves for the prelim squad and he picked the right 4.

                            I'm struggling to see the 4th but I assume it's Conan. In the absence of any other 8's who does he pick? Copeland is injured. Wilson is not up to international standard. Conan offers a really heavy ball carrying presence. If Ruddock was fit he wouldn't be there. There is no realistic chance of him being picked.

                            and that's the point I'd make outside Bent the rest of them will struggle to make the cut and ultimately won't. It's the 30 man squad where the real arguments will start 1
                            I always knew Madigan was a closet Scrum Half. Ignore All things that suggest Continuity.

                            Comment


                              Originally posted by The Outlaw View Post
                              In relation to Bent I agree but if you're talking about form Cronin hasn't got any and Denis Buckley has. If you're being fair that's who should be there.

                              Noel Reid is a different type of centre to Mc Closkey. Ulster often pick Cave ahead of Mc Closkey too. Is Mc Closkey realy at a WC level? I don't think so and in my view Reid is ahead of him in his development.

                              Issac Boss. Clearly offers more then a Peter Stringer. It's not even an argument that one. There is 4 scrum halves for the prelim squad and he picked the right 4.

                              I'm struggling to see the 4th but I assume it's Conan. In the absence of any other 8's who does he pick? Copeland is injured. Wilson is not up to international standard. Conan offers a really heavy ball carrying presence. If Ruddock was fit he wouldn't be there. There is no realistic chance of him being picked.

                              and that's the point I'd make outside Bent the rest of them will struggle to make the cut and ultimately won't. It's the 30 man squad where the real arguments will start 1
                              Form in the recent past from Cronin perhaps not as he has been injured . . .however, his form and quality have been shown.

                              How many players have a H Cup debut (full start) like he had . . .South of France iirc and we demolished the Perpignan scrum.

                              I would argue he is far more dynamic than Bent - whom I've nothing against - and if he has been training at TH for a year I'd fancy his chances to be just as good - or limited - as Bent is at TH.

                              Comment


                                so confusing Outlaw....

                                is mccloskey really at WC level? are you really saying Reid is????
                                Copeland is injured...... so are Healy, Fitzgerald and the rest of those that had elective surgery towards the end of the season
                                Wilson is not up to internation standard? are you saying Conan is?
                                Cronin doesn't have any form? do all those players that haven't played in 6 weeks or more have form?

                                Comment

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