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    World Cup Post Mortem

    Rather than throw this into a single match thread I figured post separately. For me it went like this:

    Healy
    Considering his age, the fact he was targeted physically, he was great. Had a set of good games and at a young age is getting close to top level (i.e. best in the world). He's got another 3-4 years before really hits his best, by which time the experience he has will be immense. Definitely made the right progress.

    Ross
    I've never been a believer he's the messiah and agree with T78 that Healy coming of age made a big difference BUT he's been Ireland's best TH since Wallace/Clohessy and that's good. Went AWOL against US in the basics of his job (by no means the only one) but good since.

    Buckley
    He just isn't an international level TH for a top 8 side. He's also frustrating as hell because he's not really delivering around the park either.

    Court
    Just seems to have gone backwards, couple of years back in AIs he really rivalled Healy and I believed he was going to push him out. Since then it's become a case of people worrying every time he replaces our first choicers, especially at TH.

    Best
    As with Healy really has come on in this tournament. The years spent developing at this level, taking the flak etc has paid off. He's now at his peak and it shows. Has been as good as any hooker in the tournament and one of only 2 forwards against US who could walk off that pitch knowing they'd really shown up.

    Cronin
    His couple of brief cameos, especially against Italy, were a good sign he's relaxed enough to reach his full potential. Again he's young and still 3-4 years from his best. If he can build on this experience then good for Ireland.

    DOC
    When the choke tackled reigned so did he. BUT, tellingly, he's not much of a lineout presence any more and against US he failed to do his job and protect his SH by securing ruck ball. Against Wales too often he was joining already won rucks not hitting them first up. That's his key job and he's not doing it as often as not.

    Cullen
    Maybe just a couple of years too late for him. The times I saw him he looked like a rabbit in headlights when the ball came to him, looked strangely uncomfortable and either just looked for someone to run into or got caught in no man's land.

    Ryan
    Another who has really done himself some good in this tournament. I always thought of him, from early days, as the lanky guy with decent pace and good hands. Now he's really added in bulk and tight forward play. Taken a few years longer than it should but for me his cameos have been the second best lock.

    POC
    Same as you'd expect, total aggression, lineout dominance BUT didn't do as much damage to opposition lineouts as expected. Especially telling against Italy. Equally telling was our best games his running and body position was superb, but against Wales returned to slow upright exposing his side. He still is one of the best locks in the world though.

    SOB
    Hard to be critical of someone who has been best back row in NH this past 12 months but he still lacks the offload to become world class. He's worked hard and is just coming back to full fitness, was immense against Australia and Italy but against Wales needed more from his team mates to help his game show up.

    Ferris
    Still not fully fit and it shows in how he’s struggled some times. He was superb against Australia and Italy, decent against US and Wales but he’s still not fully there.

    Heaslip
    Totally frustrating player. Either shouldn’t have been on the park against US or should have been dropped after it. To be honest was comfortably 3rd best back row even when Ferris wasn’t firing fully. If he does have ambitions to be captain he needs to sort himself out. Was getting better and to be honest I thought he was up to level of Ferris and almost SOB against Wales but overall he had a chance to set a marker as one of best 8s in the world and failed badly. He hopefully will be disappointed with his WC.

    Jennings
    Better option than Ronan and to be fair wasn’t abysmal but as with Cullen, for whatever reason has never brought his Leicester form to his later career. Has gone from Leinster captain at young age to a player whose international career has never taken off.

    Leamy
    Didn’t get much chance to show in this tournament. Did the work he needed to do and no one can question the effort. Still not the player with ball in hand he was before the knee problems though.

    Murray
    Was totally let down by his pack against US but came through that and physically has looked more than capable at this level. His pass is good, defence and kicking are good, although that hop to pass seems to have become a habit. Will grow immensely from this.
    Reddan
    Can’t blame him for his poorer performances – bowled over repeatedly against Australia in opening 20 minutes and overpowered several times when came on against US – he is what he is. Still doesn’t command a pack the way he should BUT his passing and urgency against Wales was good and made some good sniping runs.
    Boss
    Unfortunately didn’t get much chance to shine. I thought he could have overtaken Reddan from his one game but didn’t let us down.

    ROG
    Did what most others have struggled with, kicked that skin between the posts. Game was good for much of the time and coming on to close out games suits him well. Kicking was wayward against Wales and he’s not the player he was but solid performances. Wales game can’t blame him too much because there simply weren’t the runners to help him out.
    Sexton
    I thought his kicking aside he played well. Defensively made some big tackles and I still wonder if his partnership with ROG in midfield should have been developed more. If his kicking can be worked out he is still a very good rugby player.

    Earls
    Came into the tournament in really poor form and I wouldn’t say centre is going to work for him but he is a world class finisher. We had a genuine threat out wide had we known how to use it properly.

    Bowe
    For a player with little game time and not 100% he did well. Could have had another couple of tries against Italy. Looking for work well and another who we failed to get the best out of. Showed against US from a poor start he is world class with the way he turned it around.

    Trimble
    Probably our best back going into the tournament and couldn’t get the game time. Shame for him because he was and is in his prime and deserved better.

    D’Arcy
    For one glorious afternoon he was the player he could have been. Sadly his defence isn’t what it was and he’s become a targeted area for that. That run against Wales summed it up, superb run but isn’t the player he was and couldn’t take it further. Pass against US and being fended by Phillips for try were matched by some efforts with ball in hand but possibly his day is now over.

    BOD
    Was BOD, some great touches, the line against Italy for example, but still tries too hard to do it all himself without having the old ability to back it up. Still as good as most in the world and you do have to wonder would he be the answer at IC for a year or so.

    Wallace
    Didn’t do much wrong, didn’t set the world alight either. He’s a solid pro but the gap from first choice to second choice in this squad was highlighted by someone like him.

    McFadden
    Has a lot of fans and lots of potential, another who knows how to finish but may not be the answer at centre either. Was rightly behind Trimble for the bench.

    Kearney
    Still cannot make the last 1 on 1 tackle but his performance was getting better and against Wales was the only one to show the ability to play the right game to open their defence.

    Murphy
    Did ok in his appearance but another whose day has passed now.
    \"A million monkeys with a million crayons would be hard-pressed in a million years to create anything as cretinous as Battlefield Earth.\"

    #2
    More calm. Less hysterics.

    Yorn desh born, der ritt de gitt der gue,
    Orn desh, dee born desh, de umn bork! bork! bork!

    Comment


      #3
      Bottom line..... can we go back to hating Leinster........
      I felt dirty for a while there...

      you know Leo Cullen is an ugly bastard, and BOD and Darce have been ****e for at least 1 game....

      Ohhh yeah... (stubs cigarette out on arm).....
      He was as lame as a duck. Not the metaphorical lame duck either, but a real duck that was actually lame. Maybe from stepping on a land mine or something.

      Comment


        #4
        Too many players not at international standard.

        Re. Heaslip - don't think he has ever looked like being the best 8, or one of them, in the world. Absolutely anonymous, again. He's living off 1 try he scored against France. Thats all he's done. Overrated, overpaid and over opinionated. Yet another reason to not go to overpriced Irish games!

        Re. O'Callaghan, he's won alot of very handy caps. Doesn't do an awful lot imo. Never makes a big carry or a big hit in defence. A passenger.

        Earls, no where near as good as Trimble.

        Best, had his best few games for Ireland in the WC, but again, throwing is not up to par and he's not as dynamic as Cronin.

        Darcy - hasn't been good for years, we have to have alternatives that offer more in both defense and attack.

        Its easy be critical now but I think there needs to be a clear out. Forget about trying to win triple crowns and the like, and put more effort into building a decent squad.

        Comment


          #5
          Originally posted by Bongo View Post

          Best, had his best few games for Ireland in the WC, but again, throwing is not up to par and he's not as dynamic as Cronin.
          There are no words.

          Comment


            #6
            This reminded me of the scarlet qf in 2007, we had our strength of keeping it tight and what did we do but give possession to their back 3 at will. Kidney stands indicted on that one. Too much mcgahan rl bull. We need to move away from the Aussie influence on our rugby.

            Comment


              #7
              Good round up EO. To be fair, Wales won that contest hands down and we can have no complaints. A lot of the faults in our game seen in the last 12 months came back today. the truth is if we don't bully teams up front we don't have any sublety in attack. Our play in the final 3rd was pathetic if we are honest & Wales showed us how to convert chances into points. We panic like we have so often done in that position.

              Looking ahead, there are players who will get better but there are also plenty of players who should be encouraged to retire immediately or at latest post the next 6n's. If they don't they will only be denying young players vital experience and ensuring we fall further behind the likes of Wales & France. ROG, D'Arcy, BO'D, O'Callaghan etc - it's time to hang up the boots at INTL level at least. No shame in that, they've had great careers - unfortunately the sense of achievement at club level will always be spoilt by a lack of achievement at INTL level. They can't change history now and to hang on now will only be to damage future prospects.

              I think the fact that Gaffney is leaving now is good new for the future as his area of responsibility has failed to perform throughout his tenure. The rest of the coaching team must now concentrate on the young players coming through: Sherry, Murray J. Marshall, Spense, McFadden Hagan, PO'Mahoney, Ruddock, Ryan, Keatley, Conway - there is talent there and we must follow Wales's example and play the young players. We have enough experience in the likes of Ferris, O'Brien, Healy, Sexton (even PO'C IMO has another 3 perhaps 4 years in him) etc to bring them through not to mention Earls, Trimble, D. Ryan (who must now push for a place as a leader) etc.
              Last edited by Mcork; 8-October-2011, 08:45.
              Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again (like picking Gordon D'Arcy) and expecting different results.
              Albert Einstein

              Comment


                #8
                Originally posted by Mcork View Post
                Good round up EO. To be fair, Wales won that contest hands down and we can have no complaints. A lot of the faults in our game seen in the last 12 months came back today. the truth is if we don't bully teams up front we don't have any sublety in attack. Our play in the final 3rd was pathetic if we are honest & Wales showed us how to convert chances into points. We panic like we have so often done in that position.

                Looking ahead, there are players who will get better but there are also plenty of players who should be encouraged to retire immediately or at latest post the next 6n's. If they don't they will only be denying young players vital experience and ensuring we fall further behind the likes of Wales & France. ROG, D'Arcy, BO'D, O'Callaghan etc - it's time to hang up the boots at INTL level at least. No shame in that, they've had great careers - unfortunately the sense of achievement at club level will always be spoilt by a lack of achievement at INTL level. They can't change history now and to hang on now will only be to damage future prospects.

                I think the fact that Gaffney is leaving now is good new for the future as his area of responsibility has failed to perform throughout his tenure. The rest of the coaching team must now concentrate on the young players coming through: Sherry, Murray J. Marshall, Spense, McFadden Hagan, PO'Mahoney, Ruddock, Ryan, Keatley, Conway - there is talent there and we must follow Wales's example and play the young players. We have enough experience in the likes of Ferris, O'Brien, Healy, Sexton (even PO'C IMO has another 3 perhaps 4 years in him) etc to bring them through.
                Most of those guys Mcork dont start at provincial level. Thats the reality. BOD played Test Rugby at 20 for the Lions. POC has been Test Captain at that level.

                They dont make them like that anymore. Huge regrets
                I always knew Madigan was a closet Scrum Half. Ignore All things that suggest Continuity.

                Comment


                  #9
                  Glad to see Evil Omer thinks the same about Cullen as I have said for the last two seasons! Contributes nothing apart from presence in the team.
                  Stand up and fight

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Obviously we are not as good as we thought we were, also years ago Munster players were accused of playing better for Munster than Ireland, could that also be said for the likes of Heaslip, Kearney, D'Arcy, Sexton & Redden?
                    I am one of the 5 clowns woo hoo

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Originally posted by The Outlaw View Post
                      Most of those guys Mcork dont start at provincial level. Thats the reality. BOD played Test Rugby at 20 for the Lions. POC has been Test Captain at that level.

                      They dont make them like that anymore. Huge regrets
                      Most of the guys I've mentioned there do start at club level and I would expect to see a lot more of others this season. the likes of Conway (who has a similar talent level to Earls) probably has been held back by injury but the Marshall's, Spense's Gilroy's are 1st choice with the nordies. P'O'Mahoney & Keatley will definetly see a lot of gametime with Munster and Leinster have a big squad and schmitt likes to rotate so I don't see a lack of exposure at club level being the issue. It'll be the willingness of INTL management to do what Gatland has done with Wales - fair dues to him, he got the rewards for that.
                      Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again (like picking Gordon D'Arcy) and expecting different results.
                      Albert Einstein

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Originally posted by The Outlaw View Post
                        Most of those guys Mcork dont start at provincial level. Thats the reality. BOD played Test Rugby at 20 for the Lions. POC has been Test Captain at that level.

                        They dont make them like that anymore. Huge regrets
                        BOD was 22 when he played for Lions, he had turned 20 when first played for Ireland 2 years earlier. Other than that it's true, BOD was a genuine one off in world not just Ireland. But that's not a reason to say he should be there forever, however I'd not ditch him yet but my issue remains the same with him. Neither he nor POC are readers of the game the way someone like Foley could be. They won't change a game plan or make a call like that. However, that has to go against the half backs as well. They should have been calling the moves for back rows to come onto their inside shoulder at pace against the drift defence.
                        \"A million monkeys with a million crayons would be hard-pressed in a million years to create anything as cretinous as Battlefield Earth.\"

                        Comment


                          #13
                          The Oracle pwned yet again. Consistency in a world gone mad :D
                          Yorn desh born, der ritt de gitt der gue,
                          Orn desh, dee born desh, de umn bork! bork! bork!

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Originally posted by DONC View Post
                            Obviously we are not as good as we thought we were, also years ago Munster players were accused of playing better for Munster than Ireland, could that also be said for the likes of Heaslip, Kearney, D'Arcy, Sexton & Redden?
                            Definitely agree with this statement although Healy did very well for Ireland apart from today. Heaslip has been poor all tournament, even having played every minute!
                            Stand up and fight

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Originally posted by sparks View Post
                              Definitely agree with this statement although Healy did very well for Ireland apart from today. Heaslip has been poor all tournament, even having played every minute!
                              hard to claim he played against US, injury or not he was totally anonymous all game, he did start to look better last 2 games though but still nowhere near where he's supposed to be at this stage.
                              \"A million monkeys with a million crayons would be hard-pressed in a million years to create anything as cretinous as Battlefield Earth.\"

                              Comment

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