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RWC Final 2019

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    I wonder do NZ regret beating SA in the first game, they would have had a far easier time losing it...

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      Originally posted by lawrence View Post

      He seems to be more interested in delegating alright, trusting his players and coaches to look after their own role, as opposed to the control freak that is joe smidth
      He was there during our darkest hour and gave a lot of us hope.

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        Originally posted by lawrence View Post

        He seems to be more interested in delegating alright, trusting his players and coaches to look after their own role, as opposed to the control freak that is joe smidth
        Joe wouldn't be too happy with your spelling there
        Gwan Joe!!

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          Originally posted by ustix View Post

          Joe wouldn't be too happy with your spelling there
          He has more pressing matters to be unhappy about.

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            Absolutely delighted for SA, Felix, Rassie, Aled!
            And scarlet for all the imbecile's here wanting those brexit wakners to win 'cos it would be better for the game'

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              Class acts
               

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                Sinkler was a massive loss for England. Down a key carrier, Vunipola stepped into part of his role, the scrum went to ****. A big, big loss.

                But I think SA would have had too much for them anyway. A lot of (I think fairly lazy) analysis in the press asserting that they used the same route one game plan as Schmidt and therefore people should reflect on their criticism.

                But I really don't see it. Yes, they put massive pressure on the gain line. Yes, they had a huge set piece. Yes, they used contestable kicks well.

                But they didn't ship the ball to one out runners and send them into brick walls. They were selective about when they carried and broke, but when they did they did it effectively and with continuity.

                And they found a way of making the kicking game work, when Ireland's has been repeatedly negated in the last year.

                Huge credit to Erasmus I think, and to a hugely fit and committed Boks squad.


                Big worries for Ireland though, imo. The levels of performance produced by NZ against us, by England against NZ and by SA against England look like they're playing a different game to us right now.

                "We will not walk in fear, one of another. We will not be driven into an age of unreason if we dig deep into our history and remember we are not descended from fearful men" Edward R Murrow

                "Little by little, we have been brought into the present condition in which we are able neither to tolerate the evils from which we suffer, nor the remedies we need to cure them." - Livy


                "I think that progress has been made by two flames that have always been burning in the human heart. The flame of anger against injustice and the flame of hope that you can build a better world" - Tony Benn

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                  Originally posted by Balla Boy View Post

                  Big worries for Ireland though, imo. The levels of performance produced by NZ against us, by England against NZ and by SA against England look like they're playing a different game to us right now.
                  Fair points - Even if we change, do we have the players to play that game?

                  My big fear is the half backs.The coming weeks in the H Cup will tell us a lot. It would be great if Murray can adapt his play under Larkham. Will Cooney continue to develop and become a real threat to Murray? Can Ross Byrne (unlucky to lose out on a World Cup spot) push on this year? Will JJ finally deliver on his promise? If he does, will Munster be brave and play Carbery at full back?



                  Comment


                    Originally posted by Balla Boy View Post
                    Sinkler was a massive loss for England. Down a key carrier, Vunipola stepped into part of his role, the scrum went to ****. A big, big loss.

                    But I think SA would have had too much for them anyway. A lot of (I think fairly lazy) analysis in the press asserting that they used the same route one game plan as Schmidt and therefore people should reflect on their criticism.

                    But I really don't see it. Yes, they put massive pressure on the gain line. Yes, they had a huge set piece. Yes, they used contestable kicks well.

                    But they didn't ship the ball to one out runners and send them into brick walls. They were selective about when they carried and broke, but when they did they did it effectively and with continuity.

                    And they found a way of making the kicking game work, when Ireland's has been repeatedly negated in the last year.

                    Huge credit to Erasmus I think, and to a hugely fit and committed Boks squad.


                    Big worries for Ireland though, imo. The levels of performance produced by NZ against us, by England against NZ and by SA against England look like they're playing a different game to us right now.
                    Totally agree with this BB.

                    I'd add that player freshness is really key in these attritional tournaments, & that Ireland underperform consistently at RWCUPS by continuously flogging their top match day squad... funny that hey!?

                    Yes, I agree that Sinkler was a massive loss, but I thought England look like fatigue had caught up with them also e.g. Billy V, Tulagi, Itoje all looked well below themselves & were easily managed by SA. Also the number of poor passes & handling errors by England made them unrecognisable from the world beaters we watched in the semi. They looked very like Ireland at times, didn't they!?!

                    Obviously when teams fatigue, they start losing collisions, their top ball carriers get nullified, their handling under pressure breaks down, their set piece falters and the cracks appear. This is what England looked like to me. (As had Ireland looked much more like this v NZ).

                    Lastly, wrt the lazy analysis in the press apparently asserting that Ireland's gameplan could have succeeded .... cough, ahem, yeah, could they print it on tissue paper to at least make it useful!? :)
                    Last edited by Daithi; 3-November-2019, 10:48.
                    ____________________________________________
                    Munster were great when they were Munster.

                    alas they are just north munster now.......
                    ____________________________________________

                    Comment


                      Originally posted by The Last Stand View Post

                      Fair points - Even if we change, do we have the players to play that game?

                      My big fear is the half backs.The coming weeks in the H Cup will tell us a lot. It would be great if Murray can adapt his play under Larkham. Will Cooney continue to develop and become a real threat to Murray? Can Ross Byrne (unlucky to lose out on a World Cup spot) push on this year? Will JJ finally deliver on his promise? If he does, will Munster be brave and play Carbery at full back?


                      Joey left UCD to go to Clontarf because he wanted to play at 10, he left Leinster to go to Munster because he wanted to play at 10. I’d not be surprised if he left Ireland to go to France because he wants to play at 10.

                      thing is, from watching him play, he'd probably be much better at 15.
                      Only fools and drunks argue over everything. If you don’t have a hangover the next day you’re not the drunk...

                      Comment


                        Originally posted by Oldschoolsocks View Post

                        Joey left UCD to go to Clontarf because he wanted to play at 10, he left Leinster to go to Munster because he wanted to play at 10. I’d not be surprised if he left Ireland to go to France because he wants to play at 10.

                        thing is, from watching him play, he'd probably be much better at 15.
                        He would not last in France as a 10. all he needs is a highlights reel from Sexton’s time there

                        And perhaps seeing what Barrett can do at 15 for NZ may cause some reflection.

                        Comment


                          Originally posted by Balla Boy View Post
                          A lot of (I think fairly lazy) analysis in the press asserting that they used the same route one game plan as Schmidt and therefore people should reflect on their criticism.

                          But I really don't see it. Yes, they put massive pressure on the gain line. Yes, they had a huge set piece. Yes, they used contestable kicks well.

                          But they didn't ship the ball to one out runners and send them into brick walls. They were selective about when they carried and broke, but when they did they did it effectively and with continuity.

                          And they found a way of making the kicking game work, when Ireland's has been repeatedly negated in the last year.
                          It is a bit lazy but I do see a lot of similarities between the game SA played, and that employed by Ireland (and England too).

                          There were differences, as you point out, but the reliance on hugely aggressive defence, set piece dominance, big carries close in, and accurate tactical kicking were all key components. The big difference is that SA and England had the fitness and the size to execute.

                          Joe Schmidt himself said we were a light-heavyweight team at most, yet he had us trying to play like the big boys. Just madness, especially when some of the lads were getting on a bit too. We also didn’t have a decent tactical kicker in the team. Murray’s box kicks were it.

                          Munster suffered the same fate trying that stuff against teams like Sarries. At least JVG and co. have recognised it and responded. I’m hopeful that Farrell will too. If not he might have a player revolt on his hands.

                          Comment


                            I agree both about the similarities and our physical inadequacy to play the way Joe determined we would play. However SA demonstrated a tactical smartness within that general strategy. There are numerous examples, but one memorable one was half way through the second half outside the 22, they set up what was a largely unopposed maul, which was making great yards before it was pulled down illegally (Cole?)- very far from one out runners the puck attacked as a unit- and from open play rather than a set piece. That’s the sort of thing that, with a mobile and less physically dominant pack, we should have been preparing. When you can’t rely on bosh, you don’t just persist with it- you try to find alternatives.

                            Comment


                              Yeah, I haven't seen a maul formation move like that for some time, and I suspect neither have the players. Cos England brought it to ground & coughed up a penalty at a vital stage in the match which is exactly what SA wanted.

                              Regarding innovation in using your pack when smaller, absolutely agree, unfortunately Ireland just got more predictable when under pressure not less and this led to NZ double teaming the obvious once out carrier & turning over Healy, Henshaw, Henderson & others with consummate ease, which along with the deconstruction of Irelands set piece and the breakdown in handling spelt the end for Ireland really.

                              Pity, but that's what you get when you pick over the hill players, ignore in form players, play an out moded & sussed gameplan and overplay your match 23 I.e. tired, outmoded, figured out, rubbish!!
                              ____________________________________________
                              Munster were great when they were Munster.

                              alas they are just north munster now.......
                              ____________________________________________

                              Comment


                                'Awesome' Felix Jones gets high praise from Springbok stars after World Cup triumph

                                https://www.independent.ie/sport/rug...-38657703.html
                                "Some people don't know their easy lives... I wouldn't be so ungrateful" - Fiacre Ryan - #AutismAndMe

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