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  • Talking Sense
    replied
    Originally posted by Talking Sense View Post

    How do you explain Wales’ countless Grand slams despite their clubs having never gone close to being at top table in Europe, I’m all ears
    I’m still waiting IJWT

    Leave a comment:


  • neliog93
    replied
    Originally posted by lawrence View Post

    We can and have been successful playing the way we do. The wheel doesn’t need reinventing, but the mistakes that were made on and off the field need to be looked at.

    You mentioned Sexton and Murray, both had terrible days from the boot. Fix the mistakes that had Sexton not make touch twice, figure out why Murray kicked so poorly and then your some of the way there.

    CJ does what CJ does, it’s not flash, it’s not highlights reel stuff but it’s high percentage low reward grunt.

    Answer the question why we didn’t put japan away with a 12 point lead, because that loss diverted our path to a hammering from NZ.
    Denial. We can't be consistently successful at the highest level playing the way we do. The game has moved on - structured attrition rugby can't beat the ABs, England, or even Wales of 2019 (not to mention Japan, and probably South Africa too)...

    Leave a comment:


  • lawrence
    replied
    Originally posted by In Joe we trust View Post

    My point is if players are not playing running/offloading rugby for example at provincial level how do you expect them to suddenly start doing this at international level? For example do you think Murray can become a fast moving, quick ball playing scrumhalf for Ireland when he doesn't do it for Munster or CJ/POM can become offloading ball carriers again for Ireland when they don't do it for Munster? It's the same way that Sexton can't be a running/attacking outhalf or Toner a big ball carrying 2nd row
    We can and have been successful playing the way we do. The wheel doesn’t need reinventing, but the mistakes that were made on and off the field need to be looked at.

    You mentioned Sexton and Murray, both had terrible days from the boot. Fix the mistakes that had Sexton not make touch twice, figure out why Murray kicked so poorly and then your some of the way there.

    CJ does what CJ does, it’s not flash, it’s not highlights reel stuff but it’s high percentage low reward grunt.

    Answer the question why we didn’t put japan away with a 12 point lead, because that loss diverted our path to a hammering from NZ.

    Leave a comment:


  • Munsterboy
    replied
    Originally posted by In Joe we trust View Post

    My point is if players are not playing running/offloading rugby for example at provincial level how do you expect them to suddenly start doing this at international level? For example do you think Murray can become a fast moving, quick ball playing scrumhalf for Ireland when he doesn't do it for Munster or CJ/POM can become offloading ball carriers again for Ireland when they don't do it for Munster? It's the same way that Sexton can't be a running/attacking outhalf or Toner a big ball carrying 2nd row
    You can upskill your players - other international coaches have, with less access to players - and you can also pick players who do do it at provincial level.

    Joe chose not to pick players with a tendency to off-load or take any kind of risk, and he has largely ignored Connacht players, who have been playing that way for years now with a fair degree of success. His focus has always been on low risk basics.

    When a coach has had 8 years in charge, with unprecedented levels of access to players and influence on the provinces, you can’t claim his hands were tied. If he’d wanted them playing in pink tutus he’d have got it.

    He had a very effective game plan and team at times, and he delivered some great success between RWCs, but he failed to evolve and it cost us at the big show.

    Leave a comment:


  • Daithi
    replied
    Originally posted by Ron Swanson View Post
    All this interprovincial bitching is pointless and depressing
    Hear, hear. Ireland have just majorly imploded again at a RWC. Provincial bias plays no part once players wear green imho.

    P.s. What does get on my goat though, are elements of the Dublin mejia who blatantly act like cheerleaders for Leinster players over obviously better players from other provinces e.g. Marmion v McGrath, Whoever v Toner, POM (a Lion's test captain btw) v Ruddock ( a solid journeyman pro), Conway v Kearney, Farrell v Ringrose (out of form & ineffective for ~over 12 months now). Some Dublin scribes are more guilty of this than others, but they'll remain nameless as they should be imho. GT is really excellent & balanced in fairness.

    Leave a comment:


  • In Joe we trust
    replied
    Originally posted by RichardP View Post

    So there are no good players on teams that don’t beat the championship winners. England should pick onlySaracens, New Zealand only Crusaders? Who would Wales pick? South Africa? France?
    My point is if players are not playing running/offloading rugby for example at provincial level how do you expect them to suddenly start doing this at international level? For example do you think Murray can become a fast moving, quick ball playing scrumhalf for Ireland when he doesn't do it for Munster or CJ/POM can become offloading ball carriers again for Ireland when they don't do it for Munster? It's the same way that Sexton can't be a running/attacking outhalf or Toner a big ball carrying 2nd row

    Leave a comment:


  • Ron Swanson
    replied
    All this interprovincial bitching is pointless and depressing

    Leave a comment:


  • In Joe we trust
    replied
    Originally posted by jagawayagain View Post

    Sometimes you are annoyingly obtuse. Playing the other provinces remains the most consistently meaningful regular season games all of the provinces have. It’s not a matter of if Leinster win all their players get picked, though if each of their players outplayed his opposite number in Munster, Ulster and Connacht of course he should. If that was true 1-23 then sure, then yes Leinster represent Ireland. The national team should be picked on the basis of ability, fitness, form and future- not demography. I might not cheer as loudly as I would for players I cheer every week- but cheer loudly I would.
    Leinster have won 8 out of the last 10 games against Munster including in two semi-finals, 7 out of the last 10 against Ulster do you think that for example Munster backrow players have outplayed Leinster backrowers in those games?

    Leave a comment:


  • Cowboy
    replied
    May IJWT see Leinster lose to all 3 rival provinces this season

    (this does not occur to Whimpy, Gibson or any of the other Leinsterinos on here)

    Leave a comment:


  • Munsterboy
    replied
    What Farrell, and Catt, do next is crucial.

    A couple of players will/need to go, a few more need should be gradually phased out, and we should be building a team around the likes of James Ryan.

    However, selection and greater competition for places is only a part of it. The real issue is our playing philosophy. We need a revolution there, and if we don’t see the start of that in the coming season the IRFU need to act. Rugby-by-numbers is a complete dead end, and miserable for players and supporters alike.

    Connacht realised some time ago that with limited resources you have to be innovative to compete. Japan have shown the same at international level. Argentina have done it in the past too, as have Australia. The aims were different for each (a Pro14, a quarter final, a semi, a RWC) but all achieved things that on paper should have been beyond them.

    Ireland could build something special with the youth we have coming through, but only if they’re coming into a system that makes the most of, not stymies, their talent. Our U20s in recent years have all played with great skill and speed, regularly beating bigger sides. The ability is there, it just needs to be nurtured.

    The provinces are all trying to move in that direction. It’s time Ireland did the same.

    Leave a comment:


  • jagawayagain
    replied
    Originally posted by Finnegan79 View Post

    I'm not saying they aren't great, b/c they are; I just hate watching them steamroll teams like those teams aren't even there. The last few years of people saying Sexton and Farrell are right up there with Beauden Barrett makes me laugh my head off. Individually compared, Barrett is head and shoulders above them in every aspect except kicking, and he isn't that far behind. Nobody in their right mind would pick anyone at 10 over him if they had to pick one international fly half and leave every other one off the team sheet completely. He is one of those athletes who makes his sport look easy most of the time he takes the pitch. even that chip he missed today, 9/10 times he collects that and blows by the defense for another huge run. His try was spectacular stuff.

    SA has gotten close to them the past two seasons, but tbh, I think the best hope to stop them are the Welsh. there is just something about that team this year where they refuse to lose the matches that matter.
    Interesting point about wales- but it will be very interesting to see how they cope with England’s power. Will be fascinating next week. I want a NH team to win it, but doubt I can cope with the crowing from England or wales that would dog us for the next four years. Leaving aside the NH preference, Maybe rassie will do me a favour?

    Leave a comment:


  • jagawayagain
    replied
    Originally posted by In Joe we trust View Post

    Why use the inter pros as the basis for selection? If Leinster win easily like they did in the Pro 14 semifinal then you agree that it should be mainly a Leinster team?
    Sometimes you are annoyingly obtuse. Playing the other provinces remains the most consistently meaningful regular season games all of the provinces have. It’s not a matter of if Leinster win all their players get picked, though if each of their players outplayed his opposite number in Munster, Ulster and Connacht of course he should. If that was true 1-23 then sure, then yes Leinster represent Ireland. The national team should be picked on the basis of ability, fitness, form and future- not demography. I might not cheer as loudly as I would for players I cheer every week- but cheer loudly I would.

    Leave a comment:


  • lawrence
    replied
    Originally posted by Finnegan79 View Post

    No, there wasn't. You can't convince me of that, and tbh, saying it is totally shaded in green glasses. At no point in his career was Sexton more of a threat to the opposition than Beauden Barrett was and is. No way, no how. Sexton at his best was not even close to the open field threat that Barrett has been and is. Teams know Sexton would pass near the line or make maybe a few meters tops....Barrett has game breaking ability running the ball thru the line.... Passing, maybe Sexton was as good at some point, but even then, idk. Goal kicking, Sexton has the edge, but what unless your defense can hold the other team down for 80 minutes or has the attack to get into a shootout, that becomes irrelevant. Barrett is a magician with the ball in hand, and tbh, when he calls it quits, he may be one of the best to ever play while Sexton will be remembered in the context of Ireland, not the world game.


    You may not be convinced that at one point Sexton was a better player, but some heavy hitters in world rugby were
    at one point convinced of it.
    https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/rug...10265?mode=amp

    Leave a comment:


  • RichardP
    replied
    Originally posted by In Joe we trust View Post

    Leinster who don't do it nearly as much as they used to, who rely on guys like Cronin to carry out wide, Toner as a 2nd row who can pass the ball to move the point of contact, a 2nd ball carrier in the backrow Ruddock, Conan (or other) as athletic around the park back rowers all players/styles of players that people think shouldn't be in the Irish team.
    Yeah, it’s hard to understand why he always had so few Leinster players in his teams. He really should have just sent Leo’s about 35 green jerseys and said try them on.
    Last edited by RichardP; 20-October-2019, 04:24.

    Leave a comment:


  • Finnegan79
    replied
    Originally posted by lawrence View Post

    There was a time sexton was better than BB, but that’s been a few years ago and sexton has been declining while BB is improving. Beauden is easily the best 10 in the world, and NZ have decided the best way to use him is to give him in more space, with more time and the ability to punish teams from FB. He also gets hit less and tackles less, exactly what you want from your playmaker in chief.

    The sooner we realise you need two 10’s on the field the better.
    No, there wasn't. You can't convince me of that, and tbh, saying it is totally shaded in green glasses. At no point in his career was Sexton more of a threat to the opposition than Beauden Barrett was and is. No way, no how. Sexton at his best was not even close to the open field threat that Barrett has been and is. Teams know Sexton would pass near the line or make maybe a few meters tops....Barrett has game breaking ability running the ball thru the line.... Passing, maybe Sexton was as good at some point, but even then, idk. Goal kicking, Sexton has the edge, but what unless your defense can hold the other team down for 80 minutes or has the attack to get into a shootout, that becomes irrelevant. Barrett is a magician with the ball in hand, and tbh, when he calls it quits, he may be one of the best to ever play while Sexton will be remembered in the context of Ireland, not the world game.

    Leave a comment:

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