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    Originally posted by lawrence View Post

    That’s harsh. NZ are amazing to watch, like the dubs in football you just have to admire their near perfection. no errors, accuracy at speed and they handle whatever is thrown at them, you want to be physical they can answer that. You want to kick more they counter. You beat their set piece, it doesn’t matter they destroy you in open space.

    By the sounds of it we played our best rugby in between the matches at the world cup, and while the result here is disappointing I don’t think any side is going to get near them during this competition.

    it’s disappointing to lose to them, but they are as complete a team that’s playing any sport right now.
    I'm not saying they aren't great, b/c they are; I just hate watching them steamroll teams like those teams aren't even there. The last few years of people saying Sexton and Farrell are right up there with Beauden Barrett makes me laugh my head off. Individually compared, Barrett is head and shoulders above them in every aspect except kicking, and he isn't that far behind. Nobody in their right mind would pick anyone at 10 over him if they had to pick one international fly half and leave every other one off the team sheet completely. He is one of those athletes who makes his sport look easy most of the time he takes the pitch. even that chip he missed today, 9/10 times he collects that and blows by the defense for another huge run. His try was spectacular stuff.

    SA has gotten close to them the past two seasons, but tbh, I think the best hope to stop them are the Welsh. there is just something about that team this year where they refuse to lose the matches that matter.
    Last edited by Finnegan79; 20th-October-2019, 02:28.

    Comment


      Originally posted by Finnegan79 View Post

      I'm not saying they aren't great, b/c they are; I just hate watching them steamroll teams like those teams aren't even there. The last few years of people saying Sexton and Farrell are right up there with Beauden Barrett makes me laugh my head off. Individually compared, Barrett is head and shoulders above them in every aspect except kicking, and he isn't that far behind. Nobody in their right mind would pick anyone at 10 over him if they had to pick one international fly half and leave every other one off the team sheet completely. He is one of those athletes who makes his sport look easy most of the time he takes the pitch. even that chip he missed today, 9/10 times he collects that and blows by the defense for another huge run. His try was spectacular stuff.

      SA has gotten close to them the past two seasons, but tbh, I think the best hope to stop them are the Welsh. there is just something about that team this year where they refuse to lose the matches that matter.
      There was a time sexton was better than BB, but that’s been a few years ago and sexton has been declining while BB is improving. Beauden is easily the best 10 in the world, and NZ have decided the best way to use him is to give him in more space, with more time and the ability to punish teams from FB. He also gets hit less and tackles less, exactly what you want from your playmaker in chief.

      The sooner we realise you need two 10’s on the field the better.

      Comment


        Originally posted by In Joe we trust View Post

        What irish provinces play good running unstructured rugby that utilises the offload etc to any degree of success? If the players cant do it at provincial level how do they do it at international level?
        So there are no good players on teams that don’t beat the championship winners. England should pick onlySaracens, New Zealand only Crusaders? Who would Wales pick? South Africa? France?

        Comment


          Originally posted by lawrence View Post

          There was a time sexton was better than BB, but that’s been a few years ago and sexton has been declining while BB is improving. Beauden is easily the best 10 in the world, and NZ have decided the best way to use him is to give him in more space, with more time and the ability to punish teams from FB. He also gets hit less and tackles less, exactly what you want from your playmaker in chief.

          The sooner we realise you need two 10’s on the field the better.
          No, there wasn't. You can't convince me of that, and tbh, saying it is totally shaded in green glasses. At no point in his career was Sexton more of a threat to the opposition than Beauden Barrett was and is. No way, no how. Sexton at his best was not even close to the open field threat that Barrett has been and is. Teams know Sexton would pass near the line or make maybe a few meters tops....Barrett has game breaking ability running the ball thru the line.... Passing, maybe Sexton was as good at some point, but even then, idk. Goal kicking, Sexton has the edge, but what unless your defense can hold the other team down for 80 minutes or has the attack to get into a shootout, that becomes irrelevant. Barrett is a magician with the ball in hand, and tbh, when he calls it quits, he may be one of the best to ever play while Sexton will be remembered in the context of Ireland, not the world game.

          Comment


            Originally posted by In Joe we trust View Post

            Leinster who don't do it nearly as much as they used to, who rely on guys like Cronin to carry out wide, Toner as a 2nd row who can pass the ball to move the point of contact, a 2nd ball carrier in the backrow Ruddock, Conan (or other) as athletic around the park back rowers all players/styles of players that people think shouldn't be in the Irish team.
            Yeah, it’s hard to understand why he always had so few Leinster players in his teams. He really should have just sent Leo’s about 35 green jerseys and said try them on.
            Last edited by RichardP; 20th-October-2019, 04:24.

            Comment


              Originally posted by Finnegan79 View Post

              No, there wasn't. You can't convince me of that, and tbh, saying it is totally shaded in green glasses. At no point in his career was Sexton more of a threat to the opposition than Beauden Barrett was and is. No way, no how. Sexton at his best was not even close to the open field threat that Barrett has been and is. Teams know Sexton would pass near the line or make maybe a few meters tops....Barrett has game breaking ability running the ball thru the line.... Passing, maybe Sexton was as good at some point, but even then, idk. Goal kicking, Sexton has the edge, but what unless your defense can hold the other team down for 80 minutes or has the attack to get into a shootout, that becomes irrelevant. Barrett is a magician with the ball in hand, and tbh, when he calls it quits, he may be one of the best to ever play while Sexton will be remembered in the context of Ireland, not the world game.


              You may not be convinced that at one point Sexton was a better player, but some heavy hitters in world rugby were
              at one point convinced of it.
              https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/rug...10265?mode=amp

              Comment


                Originally posted by In Joe we trust View Post

                Why use the inter pros as the basis for selection? If Leinster win easily like they did in the Pro 14 semifinal then you agree that it should be mainly a Leinster team?
                Sometimes you are annoyingly obtuse. Playing the other provinces remains the most consistently meaningful regular season games all of the provinces have. It’s not a matter of if Leinster win all their players get picked, though if each of their players outplayed his opposite number in Munster, Ulster and Connacht of course he should. If that was true 1-23 then sure, then yes Leinster represent Ireland. The national team should be picked on the basis of ability, fitness, form and future- not demography. I might not cheer as loudly as I would for players I cheer every week- but cheer loudly I would.

                Comment


                  Originally posted by Finnegan79 View Post

                  I'm not saying they aren't great, b/c they are; I just hate watching them steamroll teams like those teams aren't even there. The last few years of people saying Sexton and Farrell are right up there with Beauden Barrett makes me laugh my head off. Individually compared, Barrett is head and shoulders above them in every aspect except kicking, and he isn't that far behind. Nobody in their right mind would pick anyone at 10 over him if they had to pick one international fly half and leave every other one off the team sheet completely. He is one of those athletes who makes his sport look easy most of the time he takes the pitch. even that chip he missed today, 9/10 times he collects that and blows by the defense for another huge run. His try was spectacular stuff.

                  SA has gotten close to them the past two seasons, but tbh, I think the best hope to stop them are the Welsh. there is just something about that team this year where they refuse to lose the matches that matter.
                  Interesting point about wales- but it will be very interesting to see how they cope with England’s power. Will be fascinating next week. I want a NH team to win it, but doubt I can cope with the crowing from England or wales that would dog us for the next four years. Leaving aside the NH preference, Maybe rassie will do me a favour?

                  Comment


                    What Farrell, and Catt, do next is crucial.

                    A couple of players will/need to go, a few more need should be gradually phased out, and we should be building a team around the likes of James Ryan.

                    However, selection and greater competition for places is only a part of it. The real issue is our playing philosophy. We need a revolution there, and if we don’t see the start of that in the coming season the IRFU need to act. Rugby-by-numbers is a complete dead end, and miserable for players and supporters alike.

                    Connacht realised some time ago that with limited resources you have to be innovative to compete. Japan have shown the same at international level. Argentina have done it in the past too, as have Australia. The aims were different for each (a Pro14, a quarter final, a semi, a RWC) but all achieved things that on paper should have been beyond them.

                    Ireland could build something special with the youth we have coming through, but only if they’re coming into a system that makes the most of, not stymies, their talent. Our U20s in recent years have all played with great skill and speed, regularly beating bigger sides. The ability is there, it just needs to be nurtured.

                    The provinces are all trying to move in that direction. It’s time Ireland did the same.

                    Comment


                      May IJWT see Leinster lose to all 3 rival provinces this season

                      (this does not occur to Whimpy, Gibson or any of the other Leinsterinos on here)
                      I am the million man.

                      Comment


                        Originally posted by jagawayagain View Post

                        Sometimes you are annoyingly obtuse. Playing the other provinces remains the most consistently meaningful regular season games all of the provinces have. It’s not a matter of if Leinster win all their players get picked, though if each of their players outplayed his opposite number in Munster, Ulster and Connacht of course he should. If that was true 1-23 then sure, then yes Leinster represent Ireland. The national team should be picked on the basis of ability, fitness, form and future- not demography. I might not cheer as loudly as I would for players I cheer every week- but cheer loudly I would.
                        Leinster have won 8 out of the last 10 games against Munster including in two semi-finals, 7 out of the last 10 against Ulster do you think that for example Munster backrow players have outplayed Leinster backrowers in those games?

                        Comment


                          All this interprovincial bitching is pointless and depressing

                          Comment


                            Originally posted by RichardP View Post

                            So there are no good players on teams that don’t beat the championship winners. England should pick onlySaracens, New Zealand only Crusaders? Who would Wales pick? South Africa? France?
                            My point is if players are not playing running/offloading rugby for example at provincial level how do you expect them to suddenly start doing this at international level? For example do you think Murray can become a fast moving, quick ball playing scrumhalf for Ireland when he doesn't do it for Munster or CJ/POM can become offloading ball carriers again for Ireland when they don't do it for Munster? It's the same way that Sexton can't be a running/attacking outhalf or Toner a big ball carrying 2nd row

                            Comment


                              Originally posted by Ron Swanson View Post
                              All this interprovincial bitching is pointless and depressing
                              Hear, hear. Ireland have just majorly imploded again at a RWC. Provincial bias plays no part once players wear green imho.

                              P.s. What does get on my goat though, are elements of the Dublin mejia who blatantly act like cheerleaders for Leinster players over obviously better players from other provinces e.g. Marmion v McGrath, Whoever v Toner, POM (a Lion's test captain btw) v Ruddock ( a solid journeyman pro), Conway v Kearney, Farrell v Ringrose (out of form & ineffective for ~over 12 months now). Some Dublin scribes are more guilty of this than others, but they'll remain nameless as they should be imho. GT is really excellent & balanced in fairness.
                              ____________________________________________
                              Munster were great when they were Munster.

                              alas they are just north munster now.......
                              ____________________________________________

                              Comment


                                Originally posted by In Joe we trust View Post

                                My point is if players are not playing running/offloading rugby for example at provincial level how do you expect them to suddenly start doing this at international level? For example do you think Murray can become a fast moving, quick ball playing scrumhalf for Ireland when he doesn't do it for Munster or CJ/POM can become offloading ball carriers again for Ireland when they don't do it for Munster? It's the same way that Sexton can't be a running/attacking outhalf or Toner a big ball carrying 2nd row
                                You can upskill your players - other international coaches have, with less access to players - and you can also pick players who do do it at provincial level.

                                Joe chose not to pick players with a tendency to off-load or take any kind of risk, and he has largely ignored Connacht players, who have been playing that way for years now with a fair degree of success. His focus has always been on low risk basics.

                                When a coach has had 8 years in charge, with unprecedented levels of access to players and influence on the provinces, you can’t claim his hands were tied. If he’d wanted them playing in pink tutus he’d have got it.

                                He had a very effective game plan and team at times, and he delivered some great success between RWCs, but he failed to evolve and it cost us at the big show.

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