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    Originally posted by jagawayagain View Post
    Joe says we needed another couple of days recovery, but Irish rugby is in a great place. Team didn’t have a great year- a bit flat- after reaching a great height. Seems not to have any responsibility for it.
    not very shocking from a guy who kept banging his head against a wall and expecting not to get a headache. Also the guy who targeted Scotland and totally overlooked Japan, the guy who thought that a week in portugal was going to prep them for the heat and humidity of japan(not even close), the guy who refused to drop underperforming players to the point where he was stuck with them, the guy who declared the great need for the backups 10's to get experience then barely gave them starts against tier 1 nations, ...at this point ti am beginning to think that 2018 was a complete fluke. 2016 6N and summer tour weren't great, they beat the AB's and wallabies in november, good, 2017 6N wasn't great either. 2018 papered over the cracks and 2019 has been pretty poor start to finish.

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      Originally posted by Talking Sense View Post

      Leinster, you know the one joe used to coach and made famous for their passing!! You’re just walking into stuff now!
      Leinster who don't do it nearly as much as they used to, who rely on guys like Cronin to carry out wide, Toner as a 2nd row who can pass the ball to move the point of contact, a 2nd ball carrier in the backrow Ruddock, Conan (or other) as athletic around the park back rowers all players/styles of players that people think shouldn't be in the Irish team.

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        Originally posted by Dowlinz View Post

        Sexton's finished physically. He played 1 warmup game out of 4, had to be minded through the Scotland game, couldn't play a week later and could only manage 40 minutes the week after that.
        It's a new cycle now and there's no reason to endure a 34 year old who needs to be glued together for a big game once in a blue moon.

        Time to give Joey the keys and build something new.
        Agreed that its time to move on from Sexton, but just telling Carbery "you're the guy" isn't the answer. A three way shootout between Carbery, Byrne and Carty is what Farrell needs to do. "Lads, one of you is going to be the first choice 10. It's up to you to show me who that's going to be" is the message that needs to be put out. Same goes for all positions.

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          Originally posted by In Joe we trust View Post

          What irish provinces play good running unstructured rugby that utilises the offload etc to any degree of success? If the players cant do it at provincial level how do they do it at international level?
          How do you explain Wales’ countless Grand slams despite their clubs having never gone close to being at top table in Europe, I’m all ears
          \"Only Pienaar, Botha and Ferris would be in contention for a place on our first 15. That\'s a fact.\" - Tickettout\'s take on Ulster April 2011.

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            Originally posted by In Joe we trust View Post

            Leinster who don't do it nearly as much as they used to, who rely on guys like Cronin to carry out wide, Toner as a 2nd row who can pass the ball to move the point of contact, a 2nd ball carrier in the backrow Ruddock, Conan (or other) as athletic around the park back rowers all players/styles of players that people think shouldn't be in the Irish team.
            When did Leinster used to do it more? Hmmm

            Are you seriously suggesting that no other 2nd row can throw that pass out the back and we didn’t deploy that tactic purely down to Dev not playing?!! Haha
            \"Only Pienaar, Botha and Ferris would be in contention for a place on our first 15. That\'s a fact.\" - Tickettout\'s take on Ulster April 2011.

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              Originally posted by jagawayagain View Post
              Have now listened to that press conference twice, in case I missed Joe at any point saying whether the coaching staff had any responsibility at all for the performance- and zilch. Niggles during the week apparently made the selection uncertain until Thursday- was he ever going to pick anyone else?
              Nope. Too predictable and stubborn. Jones dumped the dead wood and England are the better for it. Schmidt refused to do so and crash out again.

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                Originally posted by BigLad View Post
                Off topic but from a Munster point of view I would suffer short term pain by blooding Knox. Casey. Ben Healy in. If we don’t feature in a euro semi for three years so be it. Hansen made a good point today. Experience in big games in nz doesn’t cut it. Form does. And by current form I would have Mathewson starting over Murray in November.
                Won't mathewson's contract be up ? tbh, I'd call murray in and see if his agent had a sniff from a French club wanting to pay out for a big name. If so, I'd tell him to take it and wish him well. re sign alby and go with him, mccarthy and casey for this season.

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                  Originally posted by jagawayagain View Post

                  I think every one of the players in Japan need to go back to provinces, have the rest they need, and oust those currently in their position, based on fitness and form- not what they used to be like. Then let Farrell use the Christmas inter pros as the basis of his selection - bit like the old days is probables and possibles.
                  Kearney, and Sexton need to call it a day. Beating up on Scotland, Russia, and Samoa doesn't cut it and won't at this level. Sexton requires constant management to get him from one game to the next; the guy is a legend but even legends lose to Father Time. How Kearney managed to talk the IRFU into extending his deal for this WC is a mystery.

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                    Originally posted by Talking Sense View Post

                    How do you explain Wales’ countless Grand slams despite their clubs having never gone close to being at top table in Europe, I’m all ears
                    The answer has been staring us in the face for a long, long time : Gatland is a great coach who can get the best out of his players and isn't afraid to alter things if he has to and Schmidt is a good coach who has had a few great runs. Look at the Wales game against the Wallabies. They won by 4 points. They scored 6 via the drop goal, taking their shots throughout the game. Those points were crucial. Could you imagine Schmidt allowing that in a knockout game ? The last time we saw a drop goal that wasn't a last ditch effort out of this team was 2016 in SA. Yet this has been a team that consistently gets bogged down in the opposing 22 and just bangs ahead with little imagination, although in 2019, even getting there has become increasingly difficult.

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                      Originally posted by Finnegan79 View Post

                      Nope. Too predictable and stubborn. Jones dumped the dead wood and England are the better for it. Schmidt refused to do so and crash out again.
                      If Joe was in Jones shoes Mike Brown and Robshaw would be starting, Geoff Parling too.
                      \"Only Pienaar, Botha and Ferris would be in contention for a place on our first 15. That\'s a fact.\" - Tickettout\'s take on Ulster April 2011.

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                        Originally posted by In Joe we trust View Post

                        Leinster who don't do it nearly as much as they used to, who rely on guys like Cronin to carry out wide, Toner as a 2nd row who can pass the ball to move the point of contact, a 2nd ball carrier in the backrow Ruddock, Conan (or other) as athletic around the park back rowers all players/styles of players that people think shouldn't be in the Irish team.
                        Playing heads-up rugby doesn't require you to have an entire forward pack of Sonny Bill Williams'. Implementing the simple 2-4-2 attacking shape, that the likes of England/Australia use, involves a second rower or front-rower taking the ball to the line, with a pull-back pass option available. There is very little complexity involved in this and it is used by a load of junior teams across the country.

                        I would also take umbrage with your suggestion that the Irish pack's handling is inferior to other teams. Do you really think Itoje and Lawes/Kruis are any better at passing than Ryan and Henderson/Beirne. Are Healy and Furlong any worst at handling the ball than Joe Moody and Nepo Laulala of New Zealand. Joe Moody definitely wouldn't be renowned as a particularly good passer in New Zealand.
                        Last edited by Mumhain; 20th-October-2019, 07:46.

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                          Originally posted by In Joe we trust View Post

                          What irish provinces play good running unstructured rugby that utilises the offload etc to any degree of success? If the players cant do it at provincial level how do they do it at international level?
                          I'd say that Connacht play the best unstructured running rugby. Not many Connacht men in the Ireland XV, eh. Joe does not like that kind of thing.
                          Erse end of nowhere

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                            What's awful is that i have no idea who I want to win that QF. NZ-England is like the town bully vs. the village asshole. you're just hoping for a complete ****show, although i suppose england would be the easier opponent for whoever comes out of the other side of the draw.

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                              Originally posted by Spiffy View Post

                              I'd say that Connacht play the best unstructured running rugby. Not many Connacht men in the Ireland XV, eh. Joe does not like that kind of thing.
                              the thing with the AB's is that they can do both extremely well. If they want to play tight, they can bash you up the middle, if they want to run and gun, they can do that as well. It takes a masterful performance plus an off day on their part to beat them. SA has managed to be the closest thing to them the past two years, the Wallabies took them in Perth this year but got crushed in NZ, Ireland have the best record recently of any european team, but they are the gold standard. Rugby is a religion down there, the only equivalents i can think of are the USA in basketball or Canada in ice hockey. When they send their best pros, it's a tall order for anyone else to win.

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                                Originally posted by Finnegan79 View Post
                                What's awful is that i have no idea who I want to win that QF. NZ-England is like the town bully vs. the village asshole. you're just hoping for a complete ****show, although i suppose england would be the easier opponent for whoever comes out of the other side of the draw.
                                That’s harsh. NZ are amazing to watch, like the dubs in football you just have to admire their near perfection. no errors, accuracy at speed and they handle whatever is thrown at them, you want to be physical they can answer that. You want to kick more they counter. You beat their set piece, it doesn’t matter they destroy you in open space.

                                By the sounds of it we played our best rugby in between the matches at the world cup, and while the result here is disappointing I don’t think any side is going to get near them during this competition.

                                it’s disappointing to lose to them, but they are as complete a team that’s playing any sport right now.

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