The quarter final thread

[ustix]

Is it crazy to think it could be planned for Kearney to pull up during the warm up to slide Conway onto the bench and Larmour to 15 without NZ having prepared a kicking strategy to exploit him?

I know Schmidt is a big fan of Rob but hes clearly been toying with the idea of replacing him for the last couple of seasons and Larmours performances in this world cup has surely given him that opportunity while Rob had a shocker against Japan. It's a bit beyond belief that we're still playing this guy, especially when performing poorly.

Not sure about crazy, certainly cunning

[In Joe we trust]

I think the Kearney thing has been done to death over the last few years, and although he isn't the player he was 10 years ago (probably the best fullback in the world - albeit with different criteria and kicking more highly prized) he hasn't gotten any worse over the last 3/4, so the reasons to pick him remain mostly the same.

He fields very well (even if not the force he was) kicks well and takes the ball up reliably, rarely turning it over (I know, I know!), but none of that matters. Can't find the article that covered it, but basically he is there because he covers the space so well that we don't have to drop an additional winger back to field kicks like most teams do. That may be even more important against the all blacks.

As against that, the clamour for Larmour is based around things he 'might' do. Unfortunately the All Blacks are more than adept at defending against elusive backs, especially if the team hasn't be trained/configured to support the aforementioned back.

Like it or not Kearney is the only reasonable option at this stage.

https://www.the42.ie/rob-kearney-ire...01649-Sep2019/
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/rugby-wo...-cup-campaign/ - I think these might be the article you are referring to???

So lets look at this logically - we are playing the All Blacks (in what is expected to in wet weather), the same All Blacks who scored both tries against SA off dropped box kicks and we think that dropping our best fielder of the ball is the sensible thing to do?

We play a defensive system (under Andy Farrell) that has been proven to work against the All Blacks which requires the wingers to spend most of their time in the front line defending as well as Conor Murray and leaves a fullback alone in the backfield for most of the game and people think that picking Larmour (who isn't nearly as adept at covering the backfield) or Conway (who has barely played fullback for years) is the right call against kickers that the All Blacks have?

If we have to score tries well Rob has scored 3 in his last 3 games but hey lets drop him....

[Spiffy]

I think the Kearney thing has been done to death over the last few years, and although he isn't the player he was 10 years ago (probably the best fullback in the world - albeit with different criteria and kicking more highly prized) he hasn't gotten any worse over the last 3/4, so the reasons to pick him remain mostly the same.

He fields very well (even if not the force he was) kicks well and takes the ball up reliably, rarely turning it over (I know, I know!), but none of that matters. Can't find the article that covered it, but basically he is there because he covers the space so well that we don't have to drop an additional winger back to field kicks like most teams do. That may be even more important against the all blacks.

As against that, the clamour for Larmour is based around things he 'might' do. Unfortunately the All Blacks are more than adept at defending against elusive backs, especially if the team hasn't be trained/configured to support the aforementioned back.

Like it or not Kearney is the only reasonable option at this stage.

I don't like it and he's not the only reasonable option.
He is quite a predictable plodder who can't tackle or use the ball in attack and has lost his big left boot.
Watch the ABs run around him.
I fervently hope that I am wrong.

[Cowboy]

Hard on John Ryan but thats cup rugby

[Cowboy]

[Munsterboy]

https://www.the42.ie/rob-kearney-ire...01649-Sep2019/
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/rugby-wo...-cup-campaign/ - I think these might be the article you are referring to???

So lets look at this logically - we are playing the All Blacks (in what is expected to in wet weather), the same All Blacks who scored both tries against SA off dropped box kicks and we think that dropping our best fielder of the ball is the sensible thing to do?

We play a defensive system (under Andy Farrell) that has been proven to work against the All Blacks which requires the wingers to spend most of their time in the front line defending as well as Conor Murray and leaves a fullback alone in the backfield for most of the game and people think that picking Larmour (who isn't nearly as adept at covering the backfield) or Conway (who has barely played fullback for years) is the right call against kickers that the All Blacks have?

If we have to score tries well Rob has scored 3 in his last 3 games but hey lets drop him....

When did we decide that Rob’s the only player capable of catching a ball?

[Daithi]

The match day squad is disappointingly, but unsurprisingly, wrong in about 3/4 positions imho.

Larmour for Kearney
Conway for Stockdale
Henshaw to 13, Farrell to 12
Ringrose from the bench

When you also add Marmion over McGrath (Marmion was left in Ireland for the weaker one) that's a very sub optimal team imho.

I hope I'm wrong but NZ by 15+ imho.
(forecast & ref helpful to Ireland, otherwise it would be 20+).

P.s. of course Scannell is also a better player than Best imho, but that change needed to be made earlier due to Best being Irish captain.

[AwayFromHome]

When did we decide that Rob’s the only player capable of catching a ball?

We didn't. Like Paul McGrath and Axel Foley Rob has a good sense of where to be on the pitch. McGrath used to say that you didn't need to be quicker to where the ball is you needed to be quicker to where the ball is going to be. Rob's front-up tackling technique is a well known joke but his positional sense is second to none.

Conway and Larmour look great at what they are doing. Joe (and others) obviously value Rob for what he doesn't need to do. Those kinds of things can be very hard fr the casual observer (of which I definitely am) to see. I've wanted Rob out for years but I've accepted that Joe think he is key to Joe's plan working.

[blueberry]

We didn't. Like Paul McGrath and Axel Foley Rob has a good sense of where to be on the pitch. McGrath used to say that you didn't need to be quicker to where the ball is you needed to be quicker to where the ball is going to be. Rob's front-up tackling technique is a well known joke but his positional sense is second to none.

Conway and Larmour look great at what they are doing. Joe (and others) obviously value Rob for what he doesn't need to do. Those kinds of things can be very hard fr the casual observer (of which I definitely am) to see. I've wanted Rob out for years but I've accepted that Joe think he is key to Joe's plan working.

Exactly, the decision to replace Rob needed to made 2 years ago, and it needed to coincide with a general strategy to be more creative with kick returns.

Pretty much everyone wishes that was done (though if we're honest would we have won as much?) but that opportunity has passed and at this point in time, Rob is the best option.

Munsterboy - it's not about catching the ball as much as being in the right place to catch it, or even better prevent it being kicked - Rob is second to none at that. Poysonally I think Conway is pretty damn good at it too when I've seen him at fullback (Larmour less so but getting better), but Rob is peerless.

Spiffy - we haven't a hope of fighting fire with fire against the all-blacks in terms of back play, and if we're dependent on any fullback to make open field one-on-one tackles, we're likely screwed already. It may not be pretty, but if we win it will be by suffocating them, keeping our own ball tight and relying on a few pre-planned strike moves (. . . and probably a few novenas !).

[mr chips]

... people think that picking Larmour (who isn't nearly as adept at covering the backfield) or Conway (who has barely played fullback for years) is the right call against kickers that the All Blacks have?

I know, no-one with an ounce of rugby nous would do anything like that. Sticking with the old reliables is the way to go.

The New Zealand head coach Steve Hansen ... has picked a relatively inexperienced back division with five players having little more than half the caps of the All Blacks’ captain Kieran Read between them.

For New Zealand, the scrum-half Aaron Smith and the centre Jack Goodhue are the only starting backs who survive from Dublin while Beauden Barrett ... will wear the 15 jersey.

Madness. This Hansen guy is a bit wet behind the ears - he'll never win anything at this level.

[Mumhain]

If you're going to criticise a team at least be even close to factually correct -

Ryan has played 56mins in the 3 week gap from the Japan game, Best has played 50 mins in the 3 week gap, Stander has played a lot but Conan/Jordi have been injured, POM has only played the 12th most minutes in the squad, Ringrose played 3 games in a row and has had 2 weeks off (injuries to Aki, Henshaw, Farrell impacted that)

All the players you claim have played once -
Kleyn (Russia/Samoa)
Scannell (Scotland/Russia/Samoa)
Farrell (Scotland/Japan) then injured
Ruddock (Japan/Russia)
Kilcoyne (Scotland/Japan/Russia/Samoa) - Played 3 mins less than Healy

Apologies, my original post was poorly phrased. As opposed to writing "played once", I meant to write "started once".

I think the general point still stands, though. Was there really a need to play Rory Best for 80 minutes against Scotland? Was there really a need to start him against Samoa, as well?

When Dave Kilcoyne is in such good form, why not rest Cian Healy against Samoa?

Why take Beirne off, instead of Stander (when you plan on starting the latter), in the match against Samoa? Beirne didn't appear to have an injury, so I can't understand this one.

I think most people, with a username other than "In Joe we trust", would think that a lot of these decisions were examples of poor squad management. Joe Schmidt is still a world class coach, but he makes mistakes like every other coach in world rugby.

[The Last Stand]

You are completely forgetting about the effect different climatic conditions will have on recovery, and the benefits to lads of being able to wind down at home etc even for a couple of days.

Completely correct - indeed the other teams all live in Japan and play in the same conditions every week.

We don’t have excuses this time. Our key players are fit, we had 9 days and 7 days breaks between the Russian, Samoan and this game. The weather will not be too adverse on Saturday.

[Miguel Sanchez]

Bookies have NZ @ 1/7. We are rank outsiders.

[The Last Stand]

Bookies have NZ @ 1/7. We are rank outsiders.

And rightfully so

but we may still do it.

[jagawayagain]

No excuses in terms of:

Not having enough players available

Humidity factor now gone

Tiredness, surely the whole last 4 months of prep was geared around peaking for QF. They are as phyisically ready as they will ever be. I think the 14 man performance against Samoa proves that


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All very well- but even Joe might have shuffled the pack a bit more had we not lost to Japan.