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Japan v Ireland, 08.15, Sat 28 Sept

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  • ustix
    replied
    Originally posted by hooke View Post
    I havent posted in ages but I have to say a mighty congrats to Japan I am thrilled for them and their gracious nature in victory...as a conservative people they didn't hold back in their celebrations. Its great for Ireland to be making Rugby history (LoL) in any event I cannot understand why we didn't grind them down, kick for touch, maul ruck and wtf is Kleyn doing in squad if we dont use his muscle...hindsight is great but for sure we needed Best rested should have started the fresher players and brought on the Calvary to close out the game.
    ....
    Last edited by ustix; 30th-September-2019, 06:46.

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  • Heisenberg
    replied
    No point giving out about best now, the die is cast, we need another couple of performances from him and he probably can deliver if he is managed better


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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  • Talking Sense
    replied
    Originally posted by Munsterboy View Post
    The simple answer is that they are not a stereotypically small Japanese pack these days and, faced with all of the above, our lads simply weren’t capable of physically dominating in the second half.
    This is a massive stretch, both 2nd rows around 6’5 and 17stone or close to it. One of them 38, they should be cannon fodder, their replacement was 6‘2. We should have mauled them off the park but Best couldn’t hit a barn door with a banjo and we’ve known this for years

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  • Munsterboy
    replied
    Originally posted by blueberry View Post

    The real problem (as supporters) is that we have no real way of knowing why we seemed significantly less able to deal with the conditions than Japan. Apart from Best (can't understand why he played 80 against Scotland), they should have been in good form, nearly a week after a match of less intensity than the match today. As mentioned, they deal with this regularly at club level. They have theoretically been conditioned to perfection (via hell and back !) and managed carefully. Did Portugal do more harm than good ? . . . we'll probably have to wait for the after-WRC forensics.
    Seriously? Here’s five obvious reasons:

    1. Japan have been playing and training in these absolutely stifling conditions every day for most/all of their careers
    2. They played a tier 2/3 team in their opening game, rather than a tier 1 side
    3. They had two extra recovery days
    4. They freshened up their pack with three changes (THP, lock and no.8)
    5. They were fired up for a game they’ve been targeting for two years and had an entire stadium urging them on and going mental every time they made a tackle or a carry

    No revisionism. Everybody said Best should be rested. Many (including I) said we would/should change out at least a couple more forwards.

    Joe didn’t trust his squad and the team paid the price in the second half.

    People keep saying “why didn’t we grind them down?”

    The simple answer is that they are not a stereotypically small Japanese pack these days and, faced with all of the above, our lads simply weren’t capable of physically dominating in the second half.

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  • Talking Sense
    replied
    This was seriously poor from Ireland and Joe, this Japanese team gets routinely soundly beaten by the top intl sides and we don’t score for an hour. I didn’t see wales suffering today in the humidity. Once again our selection chickens come home to roost, Best should’ve stopped played 12 months ago, Rob replaced Larmour for no reason - Rob was ok but offered nothing in attack he had to fall over the line from 1 yard to score and nearly blew it, jordan would have made line breaks. Also the joebots being programmed to remove emotion is a serious technical glitch. I honestly can’t wait for Farrell at this stage.

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  • isola ciarrai
    replied
    Originally posted by Spiffy View Post

    Earls was a great selection. He is still Ireland's fastest back and saved a certain try with his gas. He's tough as nails too and powerful for a man of his size and bulid. If the rest of the team had played with his commitment we would have won. Earls and Ryan would be the first names on any team sheet for me.
    He overtook Larmour, a fresher player and much younger to get to the perfectly timed tackle. He must start with other wing between Conway or Stockdale, horses for courses. We also must think seriously of Conway at 15 if not on wing. Munster have seen him play there and do well.
    POM obviously on refs warning list.

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  • RED 49
    replied
    Originally posted by isola ciarrai View Post

    If Ireland win next two with bonus wins, we are 16 points and no other team in group can afaik get that no matter what, except Japan. Our 1/4 final destiny is in our hands. Japan face into final pool match with Scotland with a whole nation on their backs, not their usual position but hell, Joseph and his team saw us coming a mile off and prepared accordingly. No excuse but when you see young fit men pumping sweay after 10 minutes - Ryan, Furlong - it tells a lot about the conditions.
    A workmate of mine, steeped in rugby, said to me when he saw the team nnouncement on Thursady: wrong team, wrong bench.
    Kleyn with his bulk and strength would have been obvious, with Henderson playing final 20 minutes. Carthy has done well but his kicking out of hand did not give opportunity for chasers to contest. nor did Kearney and Murray. To me, we looked like a team which expected to win handsomely and coud not adjust.

    We persisted in inviting them to kick back but they refused and we did not adapt.
    Surely a game for John Ryan to start and share with Porter/Healy. Scannell to 2 with Cronin to come on. Best had played almost full 80 only 6 days ago and it seems insane to start him, in heat and at 37 years old. His throwing became ragged and that last throw to 5 meter line out was awful, when we had a chance to take, maul and get what we could.
    No patience when we were, only sporadically, in their 22 and some white line fever.

    We have not become a poor team overnight but selection must be dead on from now on. Freshest team should play Russia, and win - let the points come in their time.

    Think Sexton could have changed the type of kicking game but we were resting him.
    Really hope that Aki, Henshaw and Farrell are available.
    And while imperious doing forward, Jacob is still a bit green and Conway should start if we intend to get tries galore in next two.
    Still baffled by team and tactics used against Japan and what is most worrying is that teams know what we are going to do,
    we do it ,they counter and when we find plan A is not working we invariably stick with Plan A .
    agree 100% re rory best it was a ridiculous call to start him last day .

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  • isola ciarrai
    replied
    Originally posted by the plastic paddy View Post

    If Ireland pick up ten points in the last two games, Japan will probably have to win against Scotland to go through to the QF, lose and they could very well be out... quite how they will handle that pressure after raising expectations with this win is anyone’s guess, but they certainly won’t be able to play as if they have nothing to lose.
    If Ireland win next two with bonus wins, we are 16 points and no other team in group can afaik get that no matter what, except Japan. Our 1/4 final destiny is in our hands. Japan face into final pool match with Scotland with a whole nation on their backs, not their usual position but hell, Joseph and his team saw us coming a mile off and prepared accordingly. No excuse but when you see young fit men pumping sweay after 10 minutes - Ryan, Furlong - it tells a lot about the conditions.
    A workmate of mine, steeped in rugby, said to me when he saw the team nnouncement on Thursady: wrong team, wrong bench.
    Kleyn with his bulk and strength would have been obvious, with Henderson playing final 20 minutes. Carthy has done well but his kicking out of hand did not give opportunity for chasers to contest. nor did Kearney and Murray. To me, we looked like a team which expected to win handsomely and coud not adjust.

    We persisted in inviting them to kick back but they refused and we did not adapt.
    Surely a game for John Ryan to start and share with Porter/Healy. Scannell to 2 with Cronin to come on. Best had played almost full 80 only 6 days ago and it seems insane to start him, in heat and at 37 years old. His throwing became ragged and that last throw to 5 meter line out was awful, when we had a chance to take, maul and get what we could.
    No patience when we were, only sporadically, in their 22 and some white line fever.

    We have not become a poor team overnight but selection must be dead on from now on. Freshest team should play Russia, and win - let the points come in their time.

    Think Sexton could have changed the type of kicking game but we were resting him.
    Really hope that Aki, Henshaw and Farrell are available.
    And while imperious doing forward, Jacob is still a bit green and Conway should start if we intend to get tries galore in next two.

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  • Mumhain
    replied
    Originally posted by blueberry View Post

    I think the revisionism comment was fair, in that most people who wanted further rotation, wanted so, to give others gametime, not because they thought they would be needed to beat Japan (which frankly everyone still assumed). The real complaints about selection effectiveness only appeared afterwards. Apart from Sexton (who could probably have played) we were paying due respect to Japan, by selecting our first team, given injuries.

    The real problem (as supporters) is that we have no real way of knowing why we seemed significantly less able to deal with the conditions than Japan. Apart from Best (can't understand why he played 80 against Scotland), they should have been in good form, nearly a week after a match of less intensity than the match today. As mentioned, they deal with this regularly at club level. They have theoretically been conditioned to perfection (via hell and back !) and managed carefully. Did Portugal do more harm than good ? . . . we'll probably have to wait for the after-WRC forensics.

    In the meantime, this would probably just have ended up a quickly forgotten close-call if it wasn't for 9 penalties, 2 lineouts lost and 1 scrum . . . we are normally, the least penalty-conceding team, but today to be honest, the penalty count felt even worse than the statistics say !

    One thing that has probably been forgotten in the post-match depression, is that in the first 20 mins we showed more enterprise than we had all year (offloads a-plenty) so one faint glimmer of hope is that we are trying to add more to our armoury. Unfortunately under pressure/fatigue we reverted to what is most familiar (Conor Murray will you please not wait until every blade of grass is in place before playing the ball from a ruck !).
    I agree with the vast majority of this, but I think we are in danger of making too many excuses for the players. This wasn't a one-off poor performance. This is the fourth time in the space of 12 months that Ireland have been completely lacklustre in a big game. Arguably the 4 worst performances we've seen from Ireland under Schmidt. Despite this, none of the players seem to be being held accountable. Rory Best is an Irish legend, but do we think he would still be starting if Jones, Gatland, Hansen or Cheika were coach of Ireland. Look at how Hansen dropped Franks, when he started to wane.

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  • FORWARD....
    replied
    Originally posted by RED 49 View Post
    Any thoughts on Joey Carberrys performance as sub?, maybe lack of game time or that he went into a real pressure situation but to me he looked unsure of what to do ,his first pen to touch was badly kicked too barely made any distance. Hopefully he will get game time v Russia
    guilty of trying too hard, I think.

    He at least made the opposition uncertain as to where we were going next. The problem was that only a few of our team were able to keep up with him. I saw him searching out Earls a few times. He had one run where a pass to Kearney could have resulted in a score out wide but he ran back inside. I hope he starts against Russia but knowing Joe, it's likely to be Sexton.

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