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Japan v Ireland, 08.15, Sat 28 Sept

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    Originally posted by The Last Stand View Post

    Well said. Hats off to Japan but what I am
    still struggling with is that we lacked passion, urgency, pride and drive. Where was the leadership? Why were they complacent?

    Why was someone like Ryan who is supposedly Uber fit looking wreaked from early on? Were they trained too hard or perhaps trying to peak for the quarters?
    Looks to me like they are completely over trained physically.

    Joe has always had our sides mentally prepared, well rehearsed and as much as we don’t like the gameplan at times the players have it down to a T.

    But physically I think they have overdone it.

    Comment


      Originally posted by Munsterboy View Post

      What irritates me is that so many seem to just want to have a go at individual players rather than actually look at the reasons that most of the team, and the pack in particular, didn't dominate the opposition in the second half. I guess when people are disappointed it makes them feel a bit better to get stuck in.
      What irritates me is when people imply that people being paid to do a professional job shouldn't/can't be critized for underperformance. As long as there are no personal attacks, I personally don't see any issue with people pointing out weaknesses in a player's game. We're not living under a Stalinist Soviet regime, as much as some people on here would like us to be.

      There is also a very obvious reason as to why individual mistakes are being highlighted as opposed to system errors. Personnel can be changed in a short space of time, game plans and systems, less so. There is nowhere near enough time to change the system during the next few weeks, so we're stuck with the game plan we have. When it works, it can be highly effective.

      Not sure how you can come to the conclusion "that people aren't looking at the reasons the pack didn't dominate in the second-half." There are a massive amount of posts pointing out factors as to why the pack mightn't have performed. Some of them being that the line-out didn't function because of Best's throwing, some being because of fatigue and some being because of a one-dimensional game plan that allowed Japan to commit multiple tacklers to one-out Irish carriers. You might not agree with these reasons, but you can't deny that they are being pointed out.



      Last edited by Mumhain; 30th-September-2019, 15:44.

      Comment


        Originally posted by Balla Boy View Post
        I don't think it's a mutually exclusive thing to admire the performance that the Japanese put in and still feel it was a terrible, terrible thing for Ireland to lose that game.

        Out-coached, out-thought, out-fought. Visibly physically unable to cope, and tactically unable to get control of the game.

        Yes, it still needed an amazing performance from Japan to capitalise on that. But it's not just a case of meeting a better team on the day. We left ourselves open for a well motivated side that should have been nowhere near us to take us. That's shocking at a World Cup, with all of the planning and resource that's been put in.
        Ireland were complacent, they got two scores up and thought they could stick their arses in the air like Paul Carbery on a good thing and cruise home on the bridle. That is not to knock Japan who were relentless and, freakishly, accurate, just to observe that Ireland got cocky.

        Comment


          Originally posted by The Last Stand View Post

          Well said. Hats off to Japan but what I am
          still struggling with is that we lacked passion, urgency, pride and drive. Where was the leadership? Why were they complacent?

          Why was someone like Ryan who is supposedly Uber fit looking wreaked from early on? Were they trained too hard or perhaps trying to peak for the quarters?
          Think its lazy to say they lacked passion, pride etc.
          Was conditions, humidity a factor?
          Maybe we have aimed to peak for quarters and got caught out by a well coached home side.

          Comment


            Originally posted by ormond lad View Post
            Think its lazy to say they lacked passion, pride etc.
            Was conditions, humidity a factor?
            Maybe we have aimed to peak for quarters and got caught out by a well coached home side.
            Exactly. All this very simplistic stuff about "not showing up" etc. is ignoring some fairly obvious external factors, and Japan's quality too.

            I thought they were playing very well for the first 20, they were ok for another 30, and then they really struggled for the last half an hour.

            To me that screams fatigue, which is not all that surprising given the conditions. As I pointed out in a previous post, apart from being used to the heat and humidity, the Japanese had freshened up their pack, despite facing weaker opposition in their preceding game and having more recovery time.

            Comment


              Originally posted by ormond lad View Post
              Think its lazy to say they lacked passion, pride etc.
              Was conditions, humidity a factor?
              Maybe we have aimed to peak for quarters and got caught out by a well coached home side.
              Maybe it is lazy to say it but it certainly was not evident. Very cool and calm is not always an asset.

              Of course humidity and heat were a factor but I was the same for both teams.

              Comment


                Originally posted by The Last Stand View Post

                Maybe it is lazy to say it but it certainly was not evident. Very cool and calm is not always an asset.

                Of course humidity and heat were a factor but I was the same for both teams.
                Japanese wouls be far more accostomed to it being at home and it is very lazy to say players lacked passion, pride.

                Comment


                  Originally posted by Talking Sense View Post
                  Poor old Jack Carty, picking him in a game of this magnitude was a huge error from Joe. If Sexton cant start 2 games in a row then he should have been jettisoned months ago and Joey made first choice. Sexton needed to start this game and get us into a secure place before emptying the bench. Joe getting off very lightly around these parts IMO.
                  Carty has been getting some undeserved flack. He was no worse that his teammates and created two tries for Ireland by clever and adventurous play. Nobody has said much here about the laboured slow ball he was getting from ruck and maul the whole game. Hard to do much with that, even if you are Sexton. If Carty is to be knocked for his performance, so then must Connor Murray who increasingly takes forever to clear the ball, but largely seems above critisizm.

                  Again, on reading the stream above, and at the risk of pissing off the regulars :

                  It is NOT Carberry - it is Carbery.
                  It is
                  NOT Carthy - it is Carty.

                  FFS offenders wud yiz sharpen up and get it right before these lads reach retirement age.
                  Erse end of nowhere

                  Comment


                    Originally posted by ormond lad View Post
                    Japanese wouls be far more accostomed to it being at home and it is very lazy to say players lacked passion, pride.
                    Again you say very lazy but quite frankly Ireland showed up expecting to win. Perhaps better to say that Ireland lacked hunger while Japan had bucketloads.

                    I also highlighted the fact that they looked off their feet and perhaps this is not fitness but overtraining.

                    Have a look at the demeanour/body language of the Irish players during the anthems last week against Scotland and against Japan??
                    Last edited by The Last Stand; 30th-September-2019, 17:36.

                    Comment


                      Originally posted by Spiffy View Post

                      Carthy has been getting some undeserved flack. He was no worse that his teammates and created two tries for Ireland by clever and adventurous play. Nobody has said much here about the laboured slow ball he was getting from ruck and maul the whole game. Hard to do much with that, even if you are Sexton. If Carthy is to be knocked for his performance, so then must Connor Murray who increasingly takes forever to clear the ball, but largely seems above critisizm.
                      It was infuriating to see how slow we were at rucks. No pace and the ball was available. Need to have more urgency - which we had against Scotland.

                      PS - apologies...

                      Comment


                        Originally posted by Spiffy View Post

                        Carty has been getting some undeserved flack. He was no worse that his teammates and created two tries for Ireland by clever and adventurous play. Nobody has said much here about the laboured slow ball he was getting from ruck and maul the whole game. Hard to do much with that, even if you are Sexton. If Carty is to be knocked for his performance, so then must Connor Murray who increasingly takes forever to clear the ball, but largely seems above critisizm.

                        Again, on reading the stream above, and at the risk of pissing off the regulars :

                        It is NOT Carberry - it is Carbery.
                        It is
                        NOT Carthy - it is Carty.

                        FFS offenders wud yiz sharpen up and get it right before these lads reach retirement age.
                        Neither should be knocked for their performance. Why do you think Murray takes forever to clear the ball? As far as I can see, he's following Joes game plan.
                        I'd bet if he was playing for Fiji, he wouldn't take an age to move the ball from the ruck.

                        Comment


                          Originally posted by The Last Stand View Post
                          Why was someone like Ryan who is supposedly Uber fit looking wreaked from early on? Were they trained too hard or perhaps trying to peak for the quarters?
                          I'm sick of hearing Irish pundits over the years telling us how Ireland are the fittest team in world rugby. It's nonsense.
                          At half time the other day, some on here were even questioning Japans ability to sustain the pressure/pace in the second half. Meanwhile, we were out on our feet long before half time.

                          If we can't cope with the conditions, we're not good enough.

                          Comment


                            Originally posted by The Last Stand View Post

                            Again you say very lazy but quite frankly Ireland showed up expecting to win. Perhaps better to say that Ireland lacked hunger while Japan had bucketloads.

                            I also highlighted the fact that they looked off their feet and perhaps this is not fitness but overtraining.

                            Have a look at the demeanour/body language of the Irish players during the anthems last week against Scotland and against Japan??
                            I dont think they did and lacking hunger? You cant quantify hunger? How do you show who's the hungrier side?
                            And demeanour during anthems cant really be seen as anything.
                            Japanese got their tactics spot on. We started well but wilted later.

                            Comment


                              Originally posted by Benji View Post

                              Yes , I agree about Best he should’ve been replaced by now but there hasn’t been great performances put in to overtake him. Scanned and Cronin both struggled over the last year st different times .
                              I’d have stuck with Scannell or Herring but he wasn’t fit . Some good hookers in Connacht Heffernan for example who wasn’t looked . But we are where we are .
                              Big Tom could have been our main man at 2
                              Last edited by ustix; 30th-September-2019, 21:18.
                              Gwan Joe!!

                              Comment


                                Originally posted by Cowboy View Post

                                Yerp. Agree with all of that. I dont think we will be beating anyone in the quarters as it stands.

                                I still think Japan were ****ing class though, and both things can be in agreement
                                Japan are 66/1 for the RWC
                                We're 12s
                                Last edited by ustix; 30th-September-2019, 20:07.
                                Gwan Joe!!

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