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Japan v Ireland, 08.15, Sat 28 Sept

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    Originally posted by Talking Sense View Post

    This is a massive stretch, both 2nd rows around 6’5 and 17stone or close to it. One of them 38, they should be cannon fodder, their replacement was 6‘2. We should have mauled them off the park but Best couldn’t hit a barn door with a banjo and we’ve known this for years
    In total, their pack was 13kg lighter than ours. 1.5kg per man is feck all and their maul defence was very good, as we saw when we set up a couple in the first half and got nowhere.

    Their 38 year old lock was playing his first game of the competition. Our 37 year old hooker was playing his second game after playing a full 80 minutes six days before.

    "Canon fodder"? The arrogance around here is astonishing sometimes.

    Comment


      Originally posted by Munsterboy View Post

      In total, their pack was 13kg lighter than ours. 1.5kg per man is feck all and their maul defence was very good, as we saw when we set up a couple in the first half and got nowhere.

      Their 38 year old lock was playing his first game of the competition. Our 37 year old hooker was playing his second game after playing a full 80 minutes six days before.

      "Canon fodder"? The arrogance around here is astonishing sometimes.
      So what if he was playing his first game?! Where has this obsession with gametime suddenly cropped up from. Plenty of fellas have played 2 games so far and looked stronger in the second game. Its just an excuse people want to cling to but it doesnt wash!

      Yes Cannon fodder, this bloke has been less than a dirt tracker all his life, he wouldnt get within an asses roar of other Intl sides and hes 38 and we got seen off by him cause we were lacking passion, urgency and intensity.
      \"Only Pienaar, Botha and Ferris would be in contention for a place on our first 15. That\'s a fact.\" - Tickettout\'s take on Ulster April 2011.

      Comment


        Originally posted by Talking Sense View Post
        he wouldnt get within an asses roar of other Intl sides and hes 38 .

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        I am the million man.

        Comment


          Originally posted by Talking Sense View Post

          So what if he was playing his first game?! Where has this obsession with gametime suddenly cropped up from. Plenty of fellas have played 2 games so far and looked stronger in the second game. Its just an excuse people want to cling to but it doesnt wash!

          Yes Cannon fodder, this bloke has been less than a dirt tracker all his life, he wouldnt get within an asses roar of other Intl sides and hes 38 and we got seen off by him cause we were lacking passion, urgency and intensity.
          You brought up his age as a reason he should be “cannon fodder” but you dismiss the fact that we started a hooker who’s only a year younger and had played 80 minutes against Scotland six days before. Would you stop.

          By the way, you also said “they”, not just he, should have been cannon fodder, dismissing the Japanese pack as a whole.

          Those goal posts of yours must be on wheels.

          Comment


            Originally posted by Heisenberg View Post

            Would be happy to see Scannell start and hold onto the Jersey for the rest of the tournament, the Best thing has bothered me for well over a year and I hope Joe shows a bit of ruthlessness here but let’s see


            Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
            Yes , I agree about Best he should’ve been replaced by now but there hasn’t been great performances put in to overtake him. Scanned and Cronin both struggled over the last year st different times .
            I’d have stuck with Scannell or Herring but he wasn’t fit . Some good hookers in Connacht Heffernan for example who wasn’t looked . But we are where we are .
            When their numbers dwindled from 50 to 8, the other dwarves began to suspect Hungry

            Comment



              I don't think it's a mutually exclusive thing to admire the performance that the Japanese put in and still feel it was a terrible, terrible thing for Ireland to lose that game.

              Out-coached, out-thought, out-fought. Visibly physically unable to cope, and tactically unable to get control of the game.

              Yes, it still needed an amazing performance from Japan to capitalise on that. But it's not just a case of meeting a better team on the day. We left ourselves open for a well motivated side that should have been nowhere near us to take us. That's shocking at a World Cup, with all of the planning and resource that's been put in.
              "We will not walk in fear, one of another. We will not be driven into an age of unreason if we dig deep into our history and remember we are not descended from fearful men" Edward R Murrow

              "Little by little, we have been brought into the present condition in which we are able neither to tolerate the evils from which we suffer, nor the remedies we need to cure them." - Livy


              "I think that progress has been made by two flames that have always been burning in the human heart. The flame of anger against injustice and the flame of hope that you can build a better world" - Tony Benn

              Comment


                Originally posted by blackwarrior View Post

                Japan were class on Saturday. Maybe it was a one-off for them, maybe not, but they were terrific in everything they did, clearly they targeted this match, they fought like warriors for the full 80 minutes and they had what seems like a really passionate crowd.

                Ireland? We played as well as we were let after 20 minutes, but Saturday had the look of two evenly matched teams going at it, with one gradually and decisively getting well on top, as happens in rugby.

                I don't get this "embarrassing defeat to a Tier 2 nation" nonsense. This morning Japan are No 8 in the rankings, ahead of Scotland, Argentina and Italy.

                We hit a really good team on Saturday and for a number of reasons - short turnaround, fatigue, weather, errors a crucial times, whatever - we couldn't match our opponents. It happens.

                Not the narrative we wanted, but 48 hours later, I'm thrilled for Japan and it is good for the game. Fair play to them.
                Agree , hats off to Japan, they were the better team on the day. Great skill levels and belief, played the referee better than we did too on the day.

                Stuck between two perspectives on this, the top three inches not being right and the conditions. We got suckered into a loser and less structured game that we would like and were undone by a lack of efficiency at set piece and a lack of control from 10 when needed. I think a lot of people are underestimating the impact of the conditions, walking in that kind of humidity is difficult and sweaty work. It feels like you are breathing in soup and you cant wait to get to the next air conditioned place. Playing international football against a team who are native/ acclimatised and completely up for it must have been a nightmare. If you’re not getting the oxygen in fast enough its going to impact on you. I think the conditions had a real impact on how we thought and were out thought to be honest. You just get heavy, slow and you’re just not as sharp, how often would we see a situation where our 9 is at the bottom of a ruck in the opposition 22 and not one of our players would think to step in? Seems to me they were so knackered they were just happy to hit the ruck, they didn’t have the energy to think. I think we proved in the first 20 that when we had gas in the tank we were in the game and with proper energy levels we were at least their match.

                We paid them the respect of starting close to our first team, shows we were not taking them lightly. If JS had gone with a second string team and lost he would have been nailed for doing that and one suspects we would have lost by more. Anyone who saw their performance against England knew they were a serious outfit who could play a bit. The longer the game went on the poorer our decision making became. I am not sure how much difference fresher players would have made on the night, we are just not built / used to playing in these conditions, personally not sure it would have altered the outcome. It was a night for Carty to pin them back in the corners but he didn’t have the platform to do that and they seemed to get way more length on their kicks than we did.

                Japan hung in and their belief grew as they realised we were gassed. We were out on our feet at the end and Joey was right to take the bonus point. That’s cup football. Not a complete disaster, we got most of the breaks against the Scots we got few enough against the Japanese, it evens out over time generally. I think playing like that Japan may well surprise more than us at this world cup.




                Comment


                  Originally posted by Balla Boy View Post
                  I don't think it's a mutually exclusive thing to admire the performance that the Japanese put in and still feel it was a terrible, terrible thing for Ireland to lose that game.

                  Out-coached, out-thought, out-fought. Visibly physically unable to cope, and tactically unable to get control of the game.

                  Yes, it still needed an amazing performance from Japan to capitalise on that. But it's not just a case of meeting a better team on the day. We left ourselves open for a well motivated side that should have been nowhere near us to take us. That's shocking at a World Cup, with all of the planning and resource that's been put in.
                  I cannot see us going beyond the 1/4 final, the glaring things that hampered us in previous wobbles cropped up again against Chapan.

                  South Africa and NZ are eminently capable of hammering up and putting us under pressure, getting in Johnnys face, and chopping CJ or Ryan/Hendo down at source. Our hooker looked ferociously tired against japan


                  Our most effective centres are both concussed at this RWC already. We've issues with 10 for multiple reasons. The refs we've had are anathema to what we like to do and play.


                  And yet you still have the odd person screaming and shouting, we've known these limitations for years. Its not like they just materialised overnight
                  I am the million man.

                  Comment


                    Originally posted by Munsterboy View Post

                    You brought up his age as a reason he should be “cannon fodder” but you dismiss the fact that we started a hooker who’s only a year younger and had played 80 minutes against Scotland six days before. Would you stop.

                    By the way, you also said “they”, not just he, should have been cannon fodder, dismissing the Japanese pack as a whole.

                    Those goal posts of yours must be on wheels.
                    Where did I dismiss Best? You saw I said we picked the wrong team? And yes I said they not he, they as in the 2nd rows to which I was clearly referring to if you look up but you go blame it on whatever straws you want to cling to, Im not moving any posts.

                    Youve basically blamed Joe there for playing Best for 80 then starting him again, youre right, Joe is a terrible selector, why on earth did Best play the full 80 if he was to play vs Japan. Besides your gametime BS isnt gonna cover up for a lackluster one dimensional ****show.
                    \"Only Pienaar, Botha and Ferris would be in contention for a place on our first 15. That\'s a fact.\" - Tickettout\'s take on Ulster April 2011.

                    Comment


                      Originally posted by Cowboy View Post
                      I cannot see us going beyond the 1/4 final, the glaring things that hampered us in previous wobbles cropped up again against Chapan.

                      South Africa and NZ are eminently capable of hammering up and putting us under pressure, getting in Johnnys face, and chopping CJ or Ryan/Hendo down at source. Our hooker looked ferociously tired against japan


                      Our most effective centres are both concussed at this RWC already. We've issues with 10 for multiple reasons. The refs we've had are anathema to what we like to do and play.


                      And yet you still have the odd person screaming and shouting, we've known these limitations for years. Its not like they just materialised overnight
                      I was very surprised by our performance, or lack thereof. After Scotland, I thought he'd answered his critics and timed his run and the peaking of his players well. I'm far less sure now.

                      "We will not walk in fear, one of another. We will not be driven into an age of unreason if we dig deep into our history and remember we are not descended from fearful men" Edward R Murrow

                      "Little by little, we have been brought into the present condition in which we are able neither to tolerate the evils from which we suffer, nor the remedies we need to cure them." - Livy


                      "I think that progress has been made by two flames that have always been burning in the human heart. The flame of anger against injustice and the flame of hope that you can build a better world" - Tony Benn

                      Comment



                        The good news is that Samoa are even worse than Scotland, so no excuses for not taking 10 points from the next 2 games.

                        "We will not walk in fear, one of another. We will not be driven into an age of unreason if we dig deep into our history and remember we are not descended from fearful men" Edward R Murrow

                        "Little by little, we have been brought into the present condition in which we are able neither to tolerate the evils from which we suffer, nor the remedies we need to cure them." - Livy


                        "I think that progress has been made by two flames that have always been burning in the human heart. The flame of anger against injustice and the flame of hope that you can build a better world" - Tony Benn

                        Comment


                          Poor old Jack Carty, picking him in a game of this magnitude was a huge error from Joe. If Sexton cant start 2 games in a row then he should have been jettisoned months ago and Joey made first choice. Sexton needed to start this game and get us into a secure place before emptying the bench. Joe getting off very lightly around these parts IMO.
                          \"Only Pienaar, Botha and Ferris would be in contention for a place on our first 15. That\'s a fact.\" - Tickettout\'s take on Ulster April 2011.

                          Comment


                            Originally posted by Talking Sense View Post
                            Poor old Jack Carty, picking him in a game of this magnitude was a huge error from Joe. If Sexton cant start 2 games in a row then he should have been jettisoned months ago and Joey made first choice. Sexton needed to start this game and get us into a secure place before emptying the bench. Joe getting off very lightly around these parts IMO.
                            Yeah Jettison Sexton...
                            Joe is getting off fairly lightly but some of the guys in media who didnt make any criticisms at all in past are beginning to make some criticisms even though he finishes up in few weeks time

                            Comment


                              Originally posted by Talking Sense View Post
                              Poor old Jack Carty, picking him in a game of this magnitude was a huge error from Joe. If Sexton cant start 2 games in a row then he should have been jettisoned months ago and Joey made first choice. Sexton needed to start this game and get us into a secure place before emptying the bench. Joe getting off very lightly around these parts IMO.
                              I heard the lads on RTe today saying that he wasn’t available, which is just lazy because joe said that he decided not to pick him when the team was announced.

                              Sexton should have at least been on the bench.

                              Comment


                                Originally posted by Balla Boy View Post
                                I don't think it's a mutually exclusive thing to admire the performance that the Japanese put in and still feel it was a terrible, terrible thing for Ireland to lose that game.

                                Out-coached, out-thought, out-fought. Visibly physically unable to cope, and tactically unable to get control of the game.

                                Yes, it still needed an amazing performance from Japan to capitalise on that. But it's not just a case of meeting a better team on the day. We left ourselves open for a well motivated side that should have been nowhere near us to take us. That's shocking at a World Cup, with all of the planning and resource that's been put in.
                                Well said. Hats off to Japan but what I am
                                still struggling with is that we lacked passion, urgency, pride and drive. Where was the leadership? Why were they complacent?

                                Why was someone like Ryan who is supposedly Uber fit looking wreaked from early on? Were they trained too hard or perhaps trying to peak for the quarters?

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