Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Japan v Ireland, 08.15, Sat 28 Sept

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

    Originally posted by blueberry View Post

    I think the revisionism comment was fair, in that most people who wanted further rotation, wanted so, to give others gametime, not because they thought they would be needed to beat Japan (which frankly everyone still assumed). The real complaints about selection effectiveness only appeared afterwards. Apart from Sexton (who could probably have played) we were paying due respect to Japan, by selecting our first team, given injuries.

    The real problem (as supporters) is that we have no real way of knowing why we seemed significantly less able to deal with the conditions than Japan. Apart from Best (can't understand why he played 80 against Scotland), they should have been in good form, nearly a week after a match of less intensity than the match today. As mentioned, they deal with this regularly at club level. They have theoretically been conditioned to perfection (via hell and back !) and managed carefully. Did Portugal do more harm than good ? . . . we'll probably have to wait for the after-WRC forensics.

    In the meantime, this would probably just have ended up a quickly forgotten close-call if it wasn't for 9 penalties, 2 lineouts lost and 1 scrum . . . we are normally, the least penalty-conceding team, but today to be honest, the penalty count felt even worse than the statistics say !

    One thing that has probably been forgotten in the post-match depression, is that in the first 20 mins we showed more enterprise than we had all year (offloads a-plenty) so one faint glimmer of hope is that we are trying to add more to our armoury. Unfortunately under pressure/fatigue we reverted to what is most familiar (Conor Murray will you please not wait until every blade of grass is in place before playing the ball from a ruck !).
    I agree with the vast majority of this, but I think we are in danger of making too many excuses for the players. This wasn't a one-off poor performance. This is the fourth time in the space of 12 months that Ireland have been completely lacklustre in a big game. Arguably the 4 worst performances we've seen from Ireland under Schmidt. Despite this, none of the players seem to be being held accountable. Rory Best is an Irish legend, but do we think he would still be starting if Jones, Gatland, Hansen or Cheika were coach of Ireland. Look at how Hansen dropped Franks, when he started to wane.

    Comment


      Originally posted by the plastic paddy View Post

      If Ireland pick up ten points in the last two games, Japan will probably have to win against Scotland to go through to the QF, lose and they could very well be out... quite how they will handle that pressure after raising expectations with this win is anyone’s guess, but they certainly won’t be able to play as if they have nothing to lose.
      If Ireland win next two with bonus wins, we are 16 points and no other team in group can afaik get that no matter what, except Japan. Our 1/4 final destiny is in our hands. Japan face into final pool match with Scotland with a whole nation on their backs, not their usual position but hell, Joseph and his team saw us coming a mile off and prepared accordingly. No excuse but when you see young fit men pumping sweay after 10 minutes - Ryan, Furlong - it tells a lot about the conditions.
      A workmate of mine, steeped in rugby, said to me when he saw the team nnouncement on Thursady: wrong team, wrong bench.
      Kleyn with his bulk and strength would have been obvious, with Henderson playing final 20 minutes. Carthy has done well but his kicking out of hand did not give opportunity for chasers to contest. nor did Kearney and Murray. To me, we looked like a team which expected to win handsomely and coud not adjust.

      We persisted in inviting them to kick back but they refused and we did not adapt.
      Surely a game for John Ryan to start and share with Porter/Healy. Scannell to 2 with Cronin to come on. Best had played almost full 80 only 6 days ago and it seems insane to start him, in heat and at 37 years old. His throwing became ragged and that last throw to 5 meter line out was awful, when we had a chance to take, maul and get what we could.
      No patience when we were, only sporadically, in their 22 and some white line fever.

      We have not become a poor team overnight but selection must be dead on from now on. Freshest team should play Russia, and win - let the points come in their time.

      Think Sexton could have changed the type of kicking game but we were resting him.
      Really hope that Aki, Henshaw and Farrell are available.
      And while imperious doing forward, Jacob is still a bit green and Conway should start if we intend to get tries galore in next two.

      Comment


        Originally posted by isola ciarrai View Post

        If Ireland win next two with bonus wins, we are 16 points and no other team in group can afaik get that no matter what, except Japan. Our 1/4 final destiny is in our hands. Japan face into final pool match with Scotland with a whole nation on their backs, not their usual position but hell, Joseph and his team saw us coming a mile off and prepared accordingly. No excuse but when you see young fit men pumping sweay after 10 minutes - Ryan, Furlong - it tells a lot about the conditions.
        A workmate of mine, steeped in rugby, said to me when he saw the team nnouncement on Thursady: wrong team, wrong bench.
        Kleyn with his bulk and strength would have been obvious, with Henderson playing final 20 minutes. Carthy has done well but his kicking out of hand did not give opportunity for chasers to contest. nor did Kearney and Murray. To me, we looked like a team which expected to win handsomely and coud not adjust.

        We persisted in inviting them to kick back but they refused and we did not adapt.
        Surely a game for John Ryan to start and share with Porter/Healy. Scannell to 2 with Cronin to come on. Best had played almost full 80 only 6 days ago and it seems insane to start him, in heat and at 37 years old. His throwing became ragged and that last throw to 5 meter line out was awful, when we had a chance to take, maul and get what we could.
        No patience when we were, only sporadically, in their 22 and some white line fever.

        We have not become a poor team overnight but selection must be dead on from now on. Freshest team should play Russia, and win - let the points come in their time.

        Think Sexton could have changed the type of kicking game but we were resting him.
        Really hope that Aki, Henshaw and Farrell are available.
        And while imperious doing forward, Jacob is still a bit green and Conway should start if we intend to get tries galore in next two.
        Still baffled by team and tactics used against Japan and what is most worrying is that teams know what we are going to do,
        we do it ,they counter and when we find plan A is not working we invariably stick with Plan A .
        agree 100% re rory best it was a ridiculous call to start him last day .

        Comment


          Originally posted by Spiffy View Post

          Earls was a great selection. He is still Ireland's fastest back and saved a certain try with his gas. He's tough as nails too and powerful for a man of his size and bulid. If the rest of the team had played with his commitment we would have won. Earls and Ryan would be the first names on any team sheet for me.
          He overtook Larmour, a fresher player and much younger to get to the perfectly timed tackle. He must start with other wing between Conway or Stockdale, horses for courses. We also must think seriously of Conway at 15 if not on wing. Munster have seen him play there and do well.
          POM obviously on refs warning list.

          Comment


            This was seriously poor from Ireland and Joe, this Japanese team gets routinely soundly beaten by the top intl sides and we don’t score for an hour. I didn’t see wales suffering today in the humidity. Once again our selection chickens come home to roost, Best should’ve stopped played 12 months ago, Rob replaced Larmour for no reason - Rob was ok but offered nothing in attack he had to fall over the line from 1 yard to score and nearly blew it, jordan would have made line breaks. Also the joebots being programmed to remove emotion is a serious technical glitch. I honestly can’t wait for Farrell at this stage.
            \"Only Pienaar, Botha and Ferris would be in contention for a place on our first 15. That\'s a fact.\" - Tickettout\'s take on Ulster April 2011.

            Comment


              Originally posted by blueberry View Post

              The real problem (as supporters) is that we have no real way of knowing why we seemed significantly less able to deal with the conditions than Japan. Apart from Best (can't understand why he played 80 against Scotland), they should have been in good form, nearly a week after a match of less intensity than the match today. As mentioned, they deal with this regularly at club level. They have theoretically been conditioned to perfection (via hell and back !) and managed carefully. Did Portugal do more harm than good ? . . . we'll probably have to wait for the after-WRC forensics.
              Seriously? Here’s five obvious reasons:

              1. Japan have been playing and training in these absolutely stifling conditions every day for most/all of their careers
              2. They played a tier 2/3 team in their opening game, rather than a tier 1 side
              3. They had two extra recovery days
              4. They freshened up their pack with three changes (THP, lock and no.8)
              5. They were fired up for a game they’ve been targeting for two years and had an entire stadium urging them on and going mental every time they made a tackle or a carry

              No revisionism. Everybody said Best should be rested. Many (including I) said we would/should change out at least a couple more forwards.

              Joe didn’t trust his squad and the team paid the price in the second half.

              People keep saying “why didn’t we grind them down?”

              The simple answer is that they are not a stereotypically small Japanese pack these days and, faced with all of the above, our lads simply weren’t capable of physically dominating in the second half.

              Comment


                Originally posted by Munsterboy View Post
                The simple answer is that they are not a stereotypically small Japanese pack these days and, faced with all of the above, our lads simply weren’t capable of physically dominating in the second half.
                This is a massive stretch, both 2nd rows around 6’5 and 17stone or close to it. One of them 38, they should be cannon fodder, their replacement was 6‘2. We should have mauled them off the park but Best couldn’t hit a barn door with a banjo and we’ve known this for years
                \"Only Pienaar, Botha and Ferris would be in contention for a place on our first 15. That\'s a fact.\" - Tickettout\'s take on Ulster April 2011.

                Comment


                  No point giving out about best now, the die is cast, we need another couple of performances from him and he probably can deliver if he is managed better


                  Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

                  Comment


                    Originally posted by hooke View Post
                    I havent posted in ages but I have to say a mighty congrats to Japan I am thrilled for them and their gracious nature in victory...as a conservative people they didn't hold back in their celebrations. Its great for Ireland to be making Rugby history (LoL) in any event I cannot understand why we didn't grind them down, kick for touch, maul ruck and wtf is Kleyn doing in squad if we dont use his muscle...hindsight is great but for sure we needed Best rested should have started the fresher players and brought on the Calvary to close out the game.
                    ....
                    Last edited by ustix; 30th-September-2019, 06:46.
                    Gwan Joe!!

                    Comment


                      Originally posted by Talking Sense View Post
                      This was seriously poor from Ireland and Joe, this Japanese team gets routinely soundly beaten by the top intl sides and we don’t score for an hour. I didn’t see wales suffering today in the humidity. Once again our selection chickens come home to roost, Best should’ve stopped played 12 months ago, Rob replaced Larmour for no reason - Rob was ok but offered nothing in attack he had to fall over the line from 1 yard to score and nearly blew it, jordan would have made line breaks. Also the joebots being programmed to remove emotion is a serious technical glitch. I honestly can’t wait for Farrell at this stage.
                      We had 10 line breaks in the game and Rob had of them and you think Larmour would have done more??? You should listen to James Lowe explain why Rob is still a better fullback than Larmour.

                      Comment


                        Refusing to play a 2 on 1 with the right pass, trying to go through the opponent's sternum or coming a cropper in any missed footstep, going to the ground and grabing the ball makes your line break useless. The irish game suffers too often a lack of continuity in such occasions.
                        Last edited by JN.Allezdax.com; 30th-September-2019, 10:49.
                        The Scots (originally Irish, but by now Scotch) were at this time inhabiting Ireland, having driven the Irish (Picts) out of Scotland; while the Picts (originally Scots) were now Irish (living in brackets) and vice versa. It is essential to keep these distinctions clearly in mind (and verce visa).

                        Comment


                          Originally posted by In Joe we trust View Post

                          We had 10 line breaks in the game and Rob had of them and you think Larmour would have done more??? You should listen to James Lowe explain why Rob is still a better fullback than Larmour.
                          Yes I do, hence why I said it. You should listen to JN.Allexdax explain why Rob sucks, we lost to Japan ffs, our kids came over here 2 years ago and put 50 on them!
                          \"Only Pienaar, Botha and Ferris would be in contention for a place on our first 15. That\'s a fact.\" - Tickettout\'s take on Ulster April 2011.

                          Comment


                            Originally posted by In Joe we trust View Post
                            The amount of revisionism in this thread is amusing. The amount of people who were happy with the team picked now criticising the picked team. This idea that players cant play three big games in a row is rubbish. Leinster played a ERC final,Pro 14 semifinal and Pro 14 final in consecutive weeks (maybe it would help if other players were used to that level).

                            A lot of the problems we suffered yesterday were evident against Scotland but they were poor and the weather helped us. Defensively we are too narrow and don't seem to be able to defend with width whether that is due to a lack of trust in the inside players or not I'm not sure.

                            its also amusing people wishing we would play a more attacking ball in hand style rather than one out bashing etc and blaming Joe for not doing so. If players don't play this style at club level how will they suddenly be able to do it for Ireland? The worrying thing is that it is like watching Munster playing when they get to the major games in the season.
                            When the team was picked I said earlier that it would be close. No point bringing 31 players if you only trust 10 - 12 of them against Russia and Samoa. Team selection and game plan was wrong. It's clear JS hasn't learned that picking your favourites routinely is going to bring problems. And as for the style of play. That style might win you matches but certainly won't win a WC.
                            Last edited by redherring; 30th-September-2019, 07:32.
                            He's a guy who gets up at six o'clock in the morning regardless of what time it is.

                            Comment


                              People wanna stop going on about the difference in Japan’s recovery time and ours. It’s embarrassing.

                              Comment


                                Originally posted by Heisenberg View Post
                                No point giving out about best now, the die is cast, we need another couple of performances from him and he probably can deliver if he is managed better


                                Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
                                Not so sure about the "there is no point going on about Best now" comment. In international rugby every little mistake is huge. Rory Best was directly responsible for giving the ball away on three occasions when Ireland were in attacking positions. Two of these were from poor throws and the other was a handling mistake when Ryan put him through a gap. Outside of the captaincy, I just can't see what he is offering. I know he is still making a lot tackles, but how many are dominant hits.

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X