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Warm-down 4 Ire v Wal Bóthar Lansdún Sat 7 Sept 1pm

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    Originally posted by kahalui View Post

    Don't be so negative Ustix, you're always glass half empty, aren't ya
    Nope, but I do loves a trick question
    Gwan Joe!!

    Comment


      Kicking stats based on a small number of kicks do not mean that much since they do not take into consideration range or angle (distance from the touchline). These variables would even out over a large number of kicks analysed. If a kicker chose to kick only those kicks under the posts he would have a 100% record, by avoiding long range and sharp angles. I remember a few years ago, Scottish international Paterson had a great place kicking record for Gloucester, then it turned out he only ever attempted the easy ones.
      Erse end of nowhere

      Comment


        and he missed some of those on a famous day in Gloucester in 2008.

        Comment


          Isn't he the lad who wound up as a kicking coach out West?
          Gwan Joe!!

          Comment


            Originally posted by kahalui View Post

            Don't be so negative Ustix, you're always glass half empty, aren't ya
            3/7 empty

            Comment


              The glass is twice as big as it needs to be..... and that's fine.

              Comment


                Look, it's clear Ireland are getting better, they wanted it (& needed it) more on Saturday & it showed in the final result, but Ireland should still have serious concerns imho:

                1. Sides have figured them out & know exactly how to beat them

                2. Up the Physicality v Ireland, then pull their wingers up with decoy runners & attack the back field with probing grubbers & other kicks & Ireland still look very vulnerable. If you manage to stop the roll on those kicks 5-10m from Ireland's line you will beat Ireland =》SIMPLES.
                (To counter this you need a 15 ,etc with gas, smarts, football & balls e.g. Conway)

                3. Ireland's gameplan has it evolved enough?!? Not to this writer's eyes yet.
                (They've added a bit of cross kicking and certainly their conditioning looks set for a more running game, but it's more like endurance tbh. Team Ireland like to run into you first for 10+ phases, rather than trying to unlock or out flank sides on 1st,2nd or 3rd phase ball. (They should try to do both imho (incremental cumulative phase play attack & unlocking moves) & ideally be able to vary which type of attack they employ when & where they want to.
                And then in defence versus England, & in the 6Ns, say, Ireland continually gave away sucker scores off 1st (or early )phases.
                This is a lethal combo of really having to work your nads off for your own scores while letting the opposition score way too easily & quickly. BOTH of these issues must change. U won't win much at a RWC like this regardless of how fit ye are....

                4. Selection still looks off. Rory Best's darts were not nearly good enough AGAIN on Saturday & his general play is poor. Lineout ball to 2 is a defensive, Volvo tactic, (boringly reliable & unspectacular) but u won't win many games with it as ur main option. U need to be able to hit 2,4,6,5,7 & 12 on demand, ideally with multiple different types of throws (ball flights( (to keep defences honest & your own point of attack varied) Sides with below average hookers don't win (or perform to their potential at RWCups imho) Scannell is better & should start imho.
                Kearney played much better on Saturday tbf & if he brings that level of performance to every game I'd have no issue with him in really. However this performance was an outlier & I'd still have Conway ahead of him, as he is in sparkling form & has the potential to change 3 (& maybe 2) above I e Sharpen Ireland's attack to score tries more easily, and quicken our backfield defence to defend more positively, both of which Ireland need so,so badly!!!

                5. Fitness & form of front liners: Furlong, CJ, Murray, Sexton & maybe Kearney (as a squad option) are hopefully showing signs of returning to form, but Best, Ringrose & 1 or 2 others are still well below where they need to be really. Some of this needs selection smarts & sauce now.
                I.e. the best midfield is probably Aki & Henshaw, best 2 Scannell, best 15 Conway, maybe Henderson should be 6, with Pom 7. Will the coach make those type of calls!?!

                6. Your place kickers simply must kick over ~80%. What they do for their club previously is only a guide, they must kick well under pressure & while playing in a higher tempo & more demanding game. This applies to all who may kick for Ireland. (Carty with 3/7 simply must improve or go home!)

                So looking with the 'Glass half full':
                Ireland were better, though Wales were only so keen imho. Ireland have found their best midfield, and there is enough evidence imho, for positive changes at 2, 15 and maybe backrow/2nd row. It's showing signs of coming together quite nicely now, but this excellent coach must now evolve his selection according to form & what he sees today & likely tomorrow ( & not historically) & his & Ireland's gameplan needs to evolve eons further.
                So assuming Ireland's stars continue to return to true ,top form that they are certainly capable of ,(see 5 above), then maybe, just maybe mind, Ireland have a fighting chance of beating one of the 2 best sides in the world ( SA or NZ) in a RWC Quarter Final. Cos that's what's needed....just for starters!

                And who knows what's on from there!?!
                Last edited by Daithi; 9th-September-2019, 20:06.
                ____________________________________________
                Munster were great when they were Munster.

                alas they are just north munster now.......
                ____________________________________________

                Comment


                  Originally posted by Daithi View Post
                  Look, it's clear Ireland are getting better, they wanted it (& needed it) more on Saturday & it showed in the final result, but Ireland should still have serious concerns imho:


                  5. Fitness & form of front liners: Furlong, CJ, Murray, Sexton & maybe Kearney (as a squad option) are hopefully showing signs of returning to form, but Best, Ringrose & 1 or 2 others are still well below where they need to be really. Some of this needs selection smarts & sauce now.
                  I.e. the best midfield is probably Aki & Henshaw, best 2 Scannell, best 15 Conway, maybe Henderson should be 6, with Pom 7. Will the coach make those type of calls!?!


                  Otherwise......let's just not go there!!
                  Would be a massive surprise. He hasn't played there consistently for a while now and with hard ground and hot conditions your back row will be need to be aerobically fit. I think the back row will be his usual and Ruddock and Beirne covering on the bench.

                  He's a guy who gets up at six o'clock in the morning regardless of what time it is.

                  Comment


                    Originally posted by redherring View Post

                    Would be a massive surprise. He hasn't played there consistently for a while now and with hard ground and hot conditions your back row will be need to be aerobically fit. I think the back row will be his usual and Ruddock and Beirne covering on the bench.
                    Whilst ,I accept that you're probably right, JS won't likely do this, but imho he should use say the Russia game to have look at Henderson there, &/or else leave him on v Scotland but sub in at 2nd row and have look at him moving to 6 for the last 20. (That would test anyone's gas) Henderson has a great engine, he was a really super 6, POM can play 7 & is good there and this combo would up Ireland's physicality hugely (with another lock change ) then use Beirne & VDF to change the game after 50 mins. That's what they should look at strongly imho....
                    Last edited by Daithi; 9th-September-2019, 12:15.
                    ____________________________________________
                    Munster were great when they were Munster.

                    alas they are just north munster now.......
                    ____________________________________________

                    Comment


                      Originally posted by Daithi View Post
                      Look, it's clear Ireland are getting better, they wanted it (& needed it) more on Saturday & it showed in the final result, but Ireland should still have serious concerns imho:

                      1. Sides have figured them out & know exactly how to beat them

                      2. Up the Physicality v Ireland, then pull their wingers up with decoy runners & attack the back field with probing grubbers & other kicks & Ireland still look very vulnerable. If you manage to stop the roll on those kicks 5-10m from Ireland's line you will beat Ireland =》SIMPLES.
                      (To counter this you need a 15 ,etc with gas, smarts, football & balls e.g. Conway)

                      3. Ireland's gameplan has it evolved enough?!? Not to this writer's eyes yet.
                      (They've added a bit of cross kicking and certainly their conditioning looks set for a more running game, but it's more like endurance tbh. Team Ireland like to run into you first for 10 phases, rather than trying unlock or out flank sides on 1st,2nd or 3rd phase ball. (They should try to do both (incremental cumulative & unlocking moves ) & ideally be able to vary which type of attack to employ when they want to.
                      And then in defence versus England, & in the 6Ns, say, Ireland continually gave away sucker scores off 1st (or early )phases.
                      This is a lethal combo of really having to work your nads off for your own scores while letting the opposition score way too easily & quickly. BOTH of these must change. U won't win much at a RWC like this regardless of how fit ye are)

                      4. Selection still looks off. Rory Best's darts were not nearly good enough AGAIN on Saturday & his general play is poor. 2 ball is a defensive, Volvo tactic but u won't win many games with it. U need to be able to hit 2,4,6,5,7 & 12 on demand, ideally with multiple different types of throws (ball flights( (to keep defences honest & your own point of attack varied) Sides with below average hookers don't win (or perform to their potential at RWCups imho) Scannell is better & should start imho.
                      Kearney played much better on Saturday tbf & if he brings that level of performance to every game I'd have no issue with him in really. However this performance was an outlier & I'd still have Conway ahead of him, as he is in sparkling form & has the potential to change 3 (& maybe 2) above I e Sharpen Ireland's attack to score tries more easily, and quicken our backfield defence to defend more positively, both of which Ireland need so,so badly!!!

                      5. Fitness & form of front liners: Furlong, CJ, Murray, Sexton & maybe Kearney (as a squad option) are hopefully showing signs of returning to form, but Best, Ringrose & 1 or 2 others are still well below where they need to be really. Some of this needs selection smarts & sauce now.
                      I.e. the best midfield is probably Aki & Henshaw, best 2 Scannell, best 15 Conway, maybe Henderson should be 6, with Pom 7. Will the coach make those type of calls!?!

                      8. Your place kickers simply must kick over ~80%. What they do for their club previously is only a guide, they must kick well under pressure & while playing in a higher tempo & more demanding game. This applies to all who may kick for Ireland.

                      So looking with the 'Glass half full':
                      Ireland were better, though Wales were only so keen imho. Ireland have found their best midfield, and there is enough evidence imho for positive changes at 2, 15 and maybe backrow/2nd row. It's showing signs of coming together but this excellent coach must now evolve his selection according to form & what he sees today (not historically) & his & Ireland's gameplan needs to evolve eons further.
                      So assuming Ireland's stars continue to return to true ,top form (see 5 above) then maybe, just maybe mind, Ireland have a fighting chance of beating one of the 2 best sides in the world in a RWC Quarter Final. Cos that's what's needed....for starters!

                      Otherwise......let's just not go there!!
                      I think its far too simplistic to say Ireland have been figured out.
                      Kearney was very good at the weekend and is nowhere near as bad as you want him to be/think he is. That performance wasnt an outlier.
                      Ireland's game has evolved and few more strings added.
                      Scannell wont start and shouldnt yet. Is clear bench option but should be played earlier in games.

                      Henderson hasnt played 6 in some time. He isnt going to play there bar a big injury crisis in Japan.
                      Our place kickers do kick 80% plus. Joey's been doing it as has Jonny. What they do for their province is kicking under pressure and demanding games. Carty has been doing it recently as well but his international kicking stats are too low to get a real gauge on things.

                      Comment


                        Originally posted by Daithi View Post

                        Whilst ,I accept that you're probably right, JS won't likely do this, but imho he should use say the Russia game to have look at Henderson there, &/or else leave him on v Scotland but sub in at 2nd row and have look at him moving to 6 for the last 20. (That would test anyone's gas) Henderson has a great engine, he was a really super 6, POM can play 7 & is good there and this combo would up Ireland's physicality hugely (with another lock change ) then use Beirne & VDF to change the game after 50 mins. That's what they should look at strongly imho....
                        Henderson is only ever a break in case of emergency 6 for Ireland.
                        You talk of international level being higher tempo and higher intensity as well being more demanding. Henderson isnt going to be able to play 6 in bigger games and do enough when he primarily plays second row and has so different duties in that position

                        Comment


                          Originally posted by Daithi View Post
                          Look, it's clear Ireland are getting better, they wanted it (& needed it) more on Saturday & it showed in the final result, but Ireland should still have serious concerns imho:

                          1. Sides have figured them out & know exactly how to beat them

                          2. Up the Physicality v Ireland, then pull their wingers up with decoy runners & attack the back field with probing grubbers & other kicks & Ireland still look very vulnerable. If you manage to stop the roll on those kicks 5-10m from Ireland's line you will beat Ireland =》SIMPLES.
                          (To counter this you need a 15 ,etc with gas, smarts, football & balls e.g. Conway)

                          3. Ireland's gameplan has it evolved enough?!? Not to this writer's eyes yet.
                          (They've added a bit of cross kicking and certainly their conditioning looks set for a more running game, but it's more like endurance tbh. Team Ireland like to run into you first for 10 phases, rather than trying unlock or out flank sides on 1st,2nd or 3rd phase ball. (They should try to do both (incremental cumulative & unlocking moves ) & ideally be able to vary which type of attack to employ when they want to.
                          And then in defence versus England, & in the 6Ns, say, Ireland continually gave away sucker scores off 1st (or early )phases.
                          This is a lethal combo of really having to work your nads off for your own scores while letting the opposition score way too easily & quickly. BOTH of these must change. U won't win much at a RWC like this regardless of how fit ye are)

                          4. Selection still looks off. Rory Best's darts were not nearly good enough AGAIN on Saturday & his general play is poor. 2 ball is a defensive, Volvo tactic but u won't win many games with it. U need to be able to hit 2,4,6,5,7 & 12 on demand, ideally with multiple different types of throws (ball flights( (to keep defences honest & your own point of attack varied) Sides with below average hookers don't win (or perform to their potential at RWCups imho) Scannell is better & should start imho.
                          Kearney played much better on Saturday tbf & if he brings that level of performance to every game I'd have no issue with him in really. However this performance was an outlier & I'd still have Conway ahead of him, as he is in sparkling form & has the potential to change 3 (& maybe 2) above I e Sharpen Ireland's attack to score tries more easily, and quicken our backfield defence to defend more positively, both of which Ireland need so,so badly!!!

                          5. Fitness & form of front liners: Furlong, CJ, Murray, Sexton & maybe Kearney (as a squad option) are hopefully showing signs of returning to form, but Best, Ringrose & 1 or 2 others are still well below where they need to be really. Some of this needs selection smarts & sauce now.
                          I.e. the best midfield is probably Aki & Henshaw, best 2 Scannell, best 15 Conway, maybe Henderson should be 6, with Pom 7. Will the coach make those type of calls!?!

                          8. Your place kickers simply must kick over ~80%. What they do for their club previously is only a guide, they must kick well under pressure & while playing in a higher tempo & more demanding game. This applies to all who may kick for Ireland.

                          So looking with the 'Glass half full':
                          Ireland were better, though Wales were only so keen imho. Ireland have found their best midfield, and there is enough evidence imho for positive changes at 2, 15 and maybe backrow/2nd row. It's showing signs of coming together but this excellent coach must now evolve his selection according to form & what he sees today (not historically) & his & Ireland's gameplan needs to evolve eons further.
                          So assuming Ireland's stars continue to return to true ,top form (see 5 above) then maybe, just maybe mind, Ireland have a fighting chance of beating one of the 2 best sides in the world in a RWC Quarter Final. Cos that's what's needed....for starters!

                          Otherwise......let's just not go there!!
                          Just a couple of points -

                          In relation to the kicking into the backfield are you saying the Conway would for example have done better than Rob did with the kick through to North at the start of the game?

                          In relation to point three surely you've seen Ireland have been trying to get the ball quickly to Stockdale etc without going through the phases as well as making more offloads through the middle. You could see that in the Kearney try where the ball was moved quickly.

                          In terms of lineout throwing we've yet to see Scannell significantly do better against top international sides. He lost a throw against a weak Welsh team and didn't really try hitting the back of the lineout either if my memory serves me correctly.

                          Henderson cannot start or play 6 unless it's an emergency.

                          Comment


                            Originally posted by Daithi View Post
                            Look, it's clear Ireland are getting better, they wanted it (& needed it) more on Saturday & it showed in the final result, but Ireland should still have serious concerns imho:

                            1. Sides have figured them out & know exactly how to beat them

                            2. Up the Physicality v Ireland, then pull their wingers up with decoy runners & attack the back field with probing grubbers & other kicks & Ireland still look very vulnerable. If you manage to stop the roll on those kicks 5-10m from Ireland's line you will beat Ireland =》SIMPLES.
                            (To counter this you need a 15 ,etc with gas, smarts, football & balls e.g. Conway)

                            3. Ireland's gameplan has it evolved enough?!? Not to this writer's eyes yet.
                            (They've added a bit of cross kicking and certainly their conditioning looks set for a more running game, but it's more like endurance tbh. Team Ireland like to run into you first for 10 phases, rather than trying unlock or out flank sides on 1st,2nd or 3rd phase ball. (They should try to do both (incremental cumulative & unlocking moves ) & ideally be able to vary which type of attack to employ when they want to.
                            And then in defence versus England, & in the 6Ns, say, Ireland continually gave away sucker scores off 1st (or early )phases.
                            This is a lethal combo of really having to work your nads off for your own scores while letting the opposition score way too easily & quickly. BOTH of these must change. U won't win much at a RWC like this regardless of how fit ye are)

                            4. Selection still looks off. Rory Best's darts were not nearly good enough AGAIN on Saturday & his general play is poor. 2 ball is a defensive, Volvo tactic but u won't win many games with it. U need to be able to hit 2,4,6,5,7 & 12 on demand, ideally with multiple different types of throws (ball flights( (to keep defences honest & your own point of attack varied) Sides with below average hookers don't win (or perform to their potential at RWCups imho) Scannell is better & should start imho.
                            Kearney played much better on Saturday tbf & if he brings that level of performance to every game I'd have no issue with him in really. However this performance was an outlier & I'd still have Conway ahead of him, as he is in sparkling form & has the potential to change 3 (& maybe 2) above I e Sharpen Ireland's attack to score tries more easily, and quicken our backfield defence to defend more positively, both of which Ireland need so,so badly!!!

                            5. Fitness & form of front liners: Furlong, CJ, Murray, Sexton & maybe Kearney (as a squad option) are hopefully showing signs of returning to form, but Best, Ringrose & 1 or 2 others are still well below where they need to be really. Some of this needs selection smarts & sauce now.
                            I.e. the best midfield is probably Aki & Henshaw, best 2 Scannell, best 15 Conway, maybe Henderson should be 6, with Pom 7. Will the coach make those type of calls!?!

                            8. Your place kickers simply must kick over ~80%. What they do for their club previously is only a guide, they must kick well under pressure & while playing in a higher tempo & more demanding game. This applies to all who may kick for Ireland.

                            So looking with the 'Glass half full':
                            Ireland were better, though Wales were only so keen imho. Ireland have found their best midfield, and there is enough evidence imho for positive changes at 2, 15 and maybe backrow/2nd row. It's showing signs of coming together but this excellent coach must now evolve his selection according to form & what he sees today (not historically) & his & Ireland's gameplan needs to evolve eons further.
                            So assuming Ireland's stars continue to return to true ,top form (see 5 above) then maybe, just maybe mind, Ireland have a fighting chance of beating one of the 2 best sides in the world in a RWC Quarter Final. Cos that's what's needed....for starters!

                            Otherwise......let's just not go there!!
                            Agree with you about Rory's lineout problems (though not sure it is all down to him), but thought his general play on Saturday was very good. He still has a great engine on him, is good over the ball, secures his share of turnovers and makes some key tackles, many of them on backs out wide. All things considered, I'd say he still has the best all-round game of the Irish hookers.

                            Erse end of nowhere

                            Comment


                              I thought it was a good game. Posted earlier that I wasn't expecting much but I was wrong. James Ryan is some young fella and Rob Kearney is some auld fella. his positioning was generally perfect all match. Confidence restored and irrespective of what people might say about it I'm delighted that we're ranked #1 in the world going into the RWC.
                              "They’re the benchmark that everyone else has to raise their game to meet." Alan Quinlan on Leinster

                              Comment


                                Originally posted by ormond lad View Post
                                Henderson is only ever a break in case of emergency 6 for Ireland.
                                You talk of international level being higher tempo and higher intensity as well being more demanding. Henderson isnt going to be able to play 6 in bigger games and do enough when he primarily plays second row and has so different duties in that position
                                Henderson has been selected and been outstanding as a test Lion at 6 iirc. This boy can play 6 and at the highest level & intensity & prosper!!

                                We'll never know what he'll be like for Ireland at 6 if he's never fuppin selected there! Will we!?!

                                Now that we've a few more locks & a few less physical back rows might be a good time to let him wreck his havoc at 6 again. He's a top class 6 when selected there

                                Ditto to Conway at 15. I'd wager 2 games of Conway at 15 and not even Leinster lovers would be asking for the diesel engined one back.

                                World Cups are hard attritional affairs, so older, average players like Best & Kearney are likely to both underperform &/or get crocked &/or not recover properly between games. This will hamper Ireland imho. Much better to be proactive now by picking younger, better, more in form players (e.g Scannell & Conway) in their place at this stage imho.

                                P.s. OL I never want Rob K to play poorly like you try to lamely assert. In fact my post specifically stated that he played quite well this Saturday gone (still not as well as Conway has been playing imho). So do try to play the ball & not the man, if you can, like a good l fella....
                                Last edited by Daithi; 9th-September-2019, 20:29.
                                ____________________________________________
                                Munster were great when they were Munster.

                                alas they are just north munster now.......
                                ____________________________________________

                                Comment

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