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    Bonus fact: the previous King of Spain (Juan Carlos I) was himself born in Rome and I'm sure a farily large number of prominent Spaniards (from both sides of the political spectrum) of his age were born outside the country due to the civil war the subsequent regime.

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      Pichot is a bit of an eejit, but Fitz is really acting the maggot by harping on about this. The nonsense, just because it's "Big Dev". He's rapidly out-Franno-ing Franno.

      Foreign born players have contributed loads to our provinces over the years and plenty have adopted Ireland as their home. I agree with the increased requirement of 5 years residency but there should always be a pathway. The lads that have been picked within the rules have every right to be accepted and supported, regardless of who they replaced.

      I wonder will Fitz be whining when Lowe gets a cap.

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        Jaysus it’s just one of those times when ****tery is at its peak because no rugby is being played. The sooner the World Cup starts the better

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          Luke Fitzgerald is playing a Boris Johnson and generating attention and clicks by being "outrageous". That act is starting to bite Johnson in the arse already.

          Fitz' career being cut short has clearly had a really bad affect on him. I hope he's seeking the help he needs or we'll have another Sinead O'Connor on our hands.

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            Originally posted by AwayFromHome View Post

            Firstly its not a question of citizenship. The Irish rugby team does not represent a unitary state, nor does the Scottish, Welsh or English one. They represent unions of clubs, united by a sport. The blood and soil bullsh!t can be left for the Sinners, DUP nutbags and FFs to argue over in a phonebox somewhere.
            I specifically excluded professional sports related work.

            Is your employer arbitrarily prevented from considering you for any promotion or task? I'm self employed.

            With regard to your own personal situation you may not be accurate in your assumptions (but perhaps there are specific reasons why you are not eligible which of course are none of my business). From a quick Google search:

            "After you have lived in Spain for five years, you can apply for permanent residence. Yes, you can apply, but if you do, you will have to 'give up' your other citizenships (i.e in my case, Irish passport) which, I'm not willing to do.
            After 10 years, you can apply for Spanish nationality. Some exemptions exist that allow certain people to apply sooner. For example, you can apply if you are married to a Spaniard or the child of a Spanish parent. I know Irish here in Seville who have married Spanish citizens and have Spanish kids but I still haven't seen any examples of those people working within the public system. I don't know of any cases (not even one) of EU citizens (not Spanish) who work in the public sector here in Spain. I've spent hours on end over the years, dealing with public organisms all around Andalucia -Seguridad Social, Hacienda, Tráfico, La Policia Local/Nacional/Guardia Civil, hospitals etc... and have NEVER, ever, encountered someone who wasn't 'Spanish' working in their departments.

            Both Spanish citizenship and permanent residency allow you to stay living in Spain, but some differences exist between the two."


            With respect to public sector employment I would also ask for some proof to back up your statement. Can you provide me with one example of an EU citizen (not Spanish) who works in the public sector in Spain on a permanent basis who didn't have to give up citizenship of the country they're originally from?

            I have worked with many senior EU civil servants who were employed by Governments under than the country of their nationality (admittedly none of them for Spain). The UK and France in particular have senior decision makers in the public sector that come from other countries. In Ireland the head of our central bank is a Cypriot born English man who was hired from New Zealand (one example among literally hundreds across Europe). A blanket ban on those not being BORN in a country from working in the public service would seem to be something that could and would be easily challenged on the ECJ or ECHR. Despite being part of the EU, Spanish law (and each autonomous region has its own specific laws) has many loopholes and is anything but transparent.


            I sincerely doubt that there are zero foreign born doctors, nurses, teachers or police officers working in Spain, nevermind senior civil servants at national, regional or municipal levels. You can doubt it all you want...here in Spain, in order to apply to work in the public sector, you have to go through a testing process called 'oposiciones'. The Spanish authorities CHOOSE who they want to accept. If it were as easy as you're claiming, surely I'd have come across someone who wasn't Spanish working at either municipal, regional or national levels. Have you ever been to a Spanish hospital? I have, many times, and have yet to encounter a 'foreign born' nurse or doctor. The same goes for the education system.
            I know one case of a South American (who fall into a different category than EU residents) who was in the Spanish army but in order to become eligible for citizenship, he was obliged to forfeit his bolivian passport in the process.
            Last edited by kahalui; 4th-September-2019, 11:40.

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              Originally posted by Mr Snrub View Post
              Luke Fitzgerald is playing a Boris Johnson and generating attention and clicks by being "outrageous". That act is starting to bite Johnson in the arse already.

              Fitz' career being cut short has clearly had a really bad affect on him. I hope he's seeking the help he needs or we'll have another Sinead O'Connor on our hands.
              Very harsh. Sinead was talented.

              Comment


                Originally posted by AwayFromHome View Post
                Bonus fact: the previous King of Spain (Juan Carlos I) was himself born in Rome
                ...and his wife, Sofia, is from Greece.

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                  Originally posted by Munsterboy View Post
                  Foreign born players have contributed loads to our provinces over the years and plenty have adopted Ireland as their home. I agree with the increased requirement of 5 years residency but there should always be a pathway. The lads that have been picked within the rules have every right to be accepted and supported, regardless of who they replaced.
                  .
                  Agreed. I do think a limit could be put on the amount per match day squad though. I went to see Spain play Russia a few years back and only 7 players from the Spanish 23 were 'home grown' Spanish. All you could hear was French throughout the entire match. The Spanish supporters I was there with were put off by the whole thing, saying they'd prefer having more home grown players in the squad even if that meant losing by a much bigger score. It didn't really feel like I was watching Spain play, more like Frances third team.

                  Comment


                    Originally posted by kahalui View Post

                    Agreed. I do think a limit could be put on the amount per match day squad though. I went to see Spain play Russia a few years back and only 7 players from the Spanish 23 were 'home grown' Spanish. All you could hear was French throughout the entire match. The Spanish supporters I was there with were put off by the whole thing, saying they'd prefer having more home grown players in the squad even if that meant losing by a much bigger score. It didn't really feel like I was watching Spain play, more like Frances third team.
                    National or provincial? I'm assuming national as the limit already applies at provincial level.
                    He's a guy who gets up at six o'clock in the morning regardless of what time it is.

                    Comment


                      Originally posted by redherring View Post

                      National or provincial? I'm assuming national as the limit already applies at provincial level.
                      Yeah, national.

                      Comment


                        Originally posted by kahalui View Post

                        I know one case of a South American (who fall into a different category than EU residents) who was in the Spanish army but in order to become eligible for citizenship, he was obliged to forfeit his bolivian passport in the process.
                        So you're accepting that your first statement about requiring to be born in Spain to have citizenship or work in the public sector is demonstrably untrue. The truth is that you can do either if you are willing to relinquish your original citizenship. As you were the one to bring this a a parallel to the residency rules this is exactly what Stander, Aki and Kleyn have done - relinquish their rights to play for other countries for whom they were previously eligible.

                        Your willingness to give up your Irish passport is simply not relevant to this discussion. That's a matter of personal choice and nothing else.

                        I can also tel you that in the case of citizens of countries that do not allow nationality to be relinquished legally (Morocco for example) that Spain will grant an exemption.

                        With regard to your request for me to give you examples of people who do work in the Spanish civil service, that's a level of whataboutarry that even Sammy Wilson would be ashamed of. You've made a claim and you can't provide a single shred of evidence to back it up.

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                          Originally posted by kahalui View Post

                          Yeah, national.
                          Don't want to go off topic too much but I wonder if it's possible? Once nationalised they become EU citizens and restricting numbers might be contravention to EU law.
                          He's a guy who gets up at six o'clock in the morning regardless of what time it is.

                          Comment


                            Originally posted by Munsterboy View Post
                            Pichot is a bit of an eejit, but Fitz is really acting the maggot by harping on about this. The nonsense, just because it's "Big Dev". He's rapidly out-Franno-ing Franno.

                            Foreign born players have contributed loads to our provinces over the years and plenty have adopted Ireland as their home. I agree with the increased requirement of 5 years residency but there should always be a pathway. The lads that have been picked within the rules have every right to be accepted and supported, regardless of who they replaced.

                            I wonder will Fitz be whining when Lowe gets a cap.
                            Luke highlighted that he wasn't happy with Dillane being dropped from the squad with Kleyn being ahead of him whilst he wasn't even Irish qualified so it's nothing to do with Dev not being picked.

                            If you listened to Luke on is podcast you'll see that he says quite clearly that he wasn't a fan of Strauss etc being picked for Ireland and isn't a fan of Lowe getting picked either highlighting would people be happy if Earls gets dropped for Lowe. I

                            Comment


                              Originally posted by redherring View Post

                              Don't want to go off topic too much but I wonder if it's possible? Once nationalised they become EU citizens and restricting numbers might be contravention to EU law.
                              We don’t want mercenaries, but am happy to see any properly qualified player be selected on ability ahead of those born in Ireland. I don’t know why the media haven’t given as much attention to Ben T’eo, who came here to establish and NH reputation, ditched Ireland when playing the possibility of playing for England raised its head, and subsequent bu@@eres off to France when disciplinary issues blighted his WC chances.

                              Comment


                                Originally posted by AwayFromHome View Post

                                So you're accepting that your first statement about requiring to be born in Spain to have citizenship or work in the public sector is demonstrably untrue.
                                The truth is that you can do either if you are willing to relinquish your original citizenship. As you were the one to bring this a a parallel to the residency rules this is exactly what Stander, Aki and Kleyn have done - relinquish their rights to play for other countries for whom they were previously eligible.

                                Your willingness to give up your Irish passport is simply not relevant to this discussion. That's a matter of personal choice and nothing else.

                                I can also tel you that in the case of citizens of countries that do not allow nationality to be relinquished legally (Morocco for example) that Spain will grant an exemption.

                                With regard to your request for me to give you examples of people who do work in the Spanish civil service, that's a level of whataboutarry that even Sammy Wilson would be ashamed of. You've made a claim and you can't provide a single shred of evidence to back it up.
                                As I said, it's not as black and white as you've been claiming with your extensive knowledge (google quotes) on the subject of Spanish residency/citizenship. First and foremost, in order to start the process, you'd have to pass the language proficiency test which basically requires you to be able to write and speak native level Spanish, which would automatically exclude 99.99% of EU 'applicants'.

                                I haven't gone into ALL the relevant details about citizenship because I don't feel like boring everyone and derailing the Ire world cup thread any further with essays on the reality of Spanish administration laws in practice.

                                Do Aki, Stander etc have to relinquish their Kiwi and SA PASSPORTS in order to play for Ireland. No, they don't, so your example is pointless, no matter how many times you repeat it.

                                Theory and practice are two completely separate subjects when it comes to what is and isn't legal within the Spanish system. I have lived here long enough to know that and don't feel the need to quote links from google to try to convince you of anything.
                                Last edited by kahalui; 4th-September-2019, 12:39.

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