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RWC 2019 31 Man squad

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    Originally posted by Daithi View Post

    Impressive recall, in fairness

    David Irwin also warned up like that one time coming on for Ireland iirc, & it may have been onto the wing too. But of course, he got many caps for Ireland over his illustrious career, including featuring strongly in the 82 triple crown (& championship) winning side. A really fine player, played centre a bit like Farrell does these days, all arms, legs, direct running, workrate & industry..... masking his huge underlying rugby intelligence and football ... in a word, class.
    Irwin was a fine player but he only played about 20 minutes of that 1982 campaign. He broke his leg in the first game against Wales. Despite the fact he received treatment on the pitch for at least ten minutes and was stretchered off, the ref wouldn't let Ireland bring on a sub until the official match doctor had verified that Irwin couldn't come back on. Terry Holmes scored a try for Wales from a scrum before Irwin's replacement, Michael Kiernan, was allowed onto the pitch.

    Comment


      Originally posted by lawrence View Post


      Thats not fair, Micko was a far better winger than Daverage.
      And Dave a far better lock.
      "They’re the benchmark that everyone else has to raise their game to meet." Alan Quinlan on Leinster

      Comment


        Originally posted by offshorerules View Post

        And Dave far better locked.


        fixed

        Comment


          Originally posted by Munsterboy View Post

          Could have a knock on effect on other selections. If no Joey on the bench, need to have a sub who can cover centre and back three, which would improve Addison's chances.

          That said, as a third choice, I rate Carty pretty highly. He's a very handy player who can really vary his game, and he hasn't looked at all nervous in his couple of appearances. Works well with Marmion and Aki too.
          Have to agree on Carty. In terms of what we have see in his Irish appearances to date he looks just as much to the manor born as Carberry did. If anything he has shown more maturity and game management nous than Joey did in his first few internationals. His style of playing 10 is the most ROGesque since ROG, suits the highly structured game plan we’ve focused on. I don’t think Sexton has been involved in the on field sessions so Carty very much up to speed. Wouldn’t be surprised to see him start and Byrne bench in Twickenham. Losing both Carbery and Sexton would be a disaster but unfortunately chances are there will be a Wally moment for at least one player before the squad is finalised.

          Dave Kearney as usual getting a lot of stick, it’s not his fault he is in the mix for the RWC squad. If anything it’s the fault of the player development officers in each of the provinces. It’s is worrying that in 4 years on no one else other than Lamour and Stockdale have come through to really establish themselves since the last world cup. IMHO he’s a fine club player, defensively sound, full of heart but just doesn’t have the top of the ground gas for an international winger. Lowe will walk into the squad as soon as he qualifies. Kearney might be exposed against the top sides but if he makes it to Japan, he would be fine against Russia and arguably sensible to use “disposable” defensively sound players as cannon fodder for the rib tickling Samoans – assuming we are three from three at that stage. Once we're through that game its field the best available side every time and you take your chances.

          In terms of style development the big thing was the cross field kick exit from the 22 -a suicidal tactic to countenance against the better teams. Imagine Hogg or Russell getting on a lose ball in a broken field situation thirty yards out – not what you’d want ideally. Really high risk stuff, cant understand why we practiced it so often it was obviously under direction from the management but not sure for what end

          For my money Beirne deserves a start at 6 against England to really stake a claim, given other injuries he would be in my 31 on turnover ability alone. Thought Ruddock did well too, TOD and Murphy less prominent. Interesting to see how the back row who didnt pay go against what will be a much tougher English side, Personally will be keeping fingers crossed the Wally moment does not happen for any of Furlong, Ryan, VDF, Ringrose or Stockdale. Other than 10– think the drop off between first and second choice sharpest in these slots.


          Comment


            There are plenty of options around the provinces that are better than Kearney, but they are not getting a chance, if Dave was in any other province he wouldn’t have been there last saturday.

            You’re right about Lowe though, he is probably going to be the retirement of Earls.

            Comment


              Ive said it 100 times, if Dave played for Connacht he'd be lucky to have an Ireland A cap. If him and Ruddock make the plane we may aswell stay on the runway. Beirne should 100% be brought ahead of Ruddock.
              \"Only Pienaar, Botha and Ferris would be in contention for a place on our first 15. That\'s a fact.\" - Tickettout\'s take on Ulster April 2011.

              Comment


                Originally posted by Talking Sense View Post
                Ive said it 100 times, if Dave played for Connacht he'd be lucky to have an Ireland A cap. If him and Ruddock make the plane we may aswell stay on the runway. Beirne should 100% be brought ahead of Ruddock.
                Connacht's back three players don't get a fair crack of the whip at all.

                Comment


                  Originally posted by LongtimeLurker View Post



                  For my money Beirne deserves a start at 6 against England to really stake a claim, given other injuries he would be in my 31 on turnover ability alone. Thought Ruddock did well too, TOD and Murphy less prominent. Interesting to see how the back row who didnt pay go against what will be a much tougher English side, Personally will be keeping fingers crossed the Wally moment does not happen for any of Furlong, Ryan, VDF, Ringrose or Stockdale. Other than 10– think the drop off between first and second choice sharpest in these slots.

                  Ruddock did a lot of carrying but wasn't particularly effective - CJ and Conan are both better in that respect - and the rest of his game was pretty average. Being able to cover openside is more important than the ability to play 6/8, and that's where Jordi has the edge.

                  If we bring Beirne and Conan, 6 and 8 are covered, which potentially gives TOD a shot. He had a good outing at 7 on Saturday - top tackler with none missed, showed up everywhere for the full 80.

                  Comment


                    Originally posted by LongtimeLurker View Post

                    Have to agree on Carty. In terms of what we have see in his Irish appearances to date he looks just as much to the manor born as Carberry did. If anything he has shown more maturity and game management nous than Joey did in his first few internationals. His style of playing 10 is the most ROGesque since ROG, suits the highly structured game plan we’ve focused on. I don’t think Sexton has been involved in the on field sessions so Carty very much up to speed. Wouldn’t be surprised to see him start and Byrne bench in Twickenham. Losing both Carbery and Sexton would be a disaster but unfortunately chances are there will be a Wally moment for at least one player before the squad is finalised.

                    Dave Kearney as usual getting a lot of stick, it’s not his fault he is in the mix for the RWC squad. If anything it’s the fault of the player development officers in each of the provinces. It’s is worrying that in 4 years on no one else other than Lamour and Stockdale have come through to really establish themselves since the last world cup. IMHO he’s a fine club player, defensively sound, full of heart but just doesn’t have the top of the ground gas for an international winger. Lowe will walk into the squad as soon as he qualifies. Kearney might be exposed against the top sides but if he makes it to Japan, he would be fine against Russia and arguably sensible to use “disposable” defensively sound players as cannon fodder for the rib tickling Samoans – assuming we are three from three at that stage. Once we're through that game its field the best available side every time and you take your chances.

                    In terms of style development the big thing was the cross field kick exit from the 22 -a suicidal tactic to countenance against the better teams. Imagine Hogg or Russell getting on a lose ball in a broken field situation thirty yards out – not what you’d want ideally. Really high risk stuff, cant understand why we practiced it so often it was obviously under direction from the management but not sure for what end

                    For my money Beirne deserves a start at 6 against England to really stake a claim, given other injuries he would be in my 31 on turnover ability alone. Thought Ruddock did well too, TOD and Murphy less prominent. Interesting to see how the back row who didnt pay go against what will be a much tougher English side, Personally will be keeping fingers crossed the Wally moment does not happen for any of Furlong, Ryan, VDF, Ringrose or Stockdale. Other than 10– think the drop off between first and second choice sharpest in these slots.

                    Good post. I'd add Murray to that list if he can regain that world class form over the coming few weeks.

                    Comment


                      Originally posted by Munsterboy View Post

                      Connacht's back three players don't get a fair crack of the whip at all.

                      Sidebar argument & not wumming as whoever selected is going to hold tackle bags primarily but who has not been given a chance / who should be there instead of him?

                      When I checked realised Schmidt gave Conway his debut after the last world cup, I thought he had made his debut in a friendly prior to the 2015 world cup. Stockdale, Larmour and Conway are back three players Schmidt has capped & brought through, at least two of them will travel.

                      In fairness to Schmidt & Co since the last world cup apart from the three above they have also given debuts in the back three to O’Halloran, Healy, Adeolokun, Sweetnam, Byrne, Addison, Arnold and now Haley. Some real talent there that has for whatever reason not made the leap. Gilroy has played for Schmidt a number of times I am sure there are others currently outside the squad I am forgetting too, barring injury Jared Payne might have still been in the mix. Wooton did not make the jump to representative XVs from sevens, this world cup has just come around too soon for the likes of Balocoune.

                      I don’t think you can argue that someone deserving has not been looked at or given an opportunity – whether they have taken it in the eyes of the coaching team is another question. O’Halloran possibly the biggest disappointment but for whatever reason his face doesn’t seem to fit. I know Kearney bashing is the unofficial second sport here but genuinely think it’s a case that they have gone back to a player they rate ahead of other players they have looked at.

                      I'll get my coat.


                      Comment


                        Originally posted by LongtimeLurker View Post


                        Sidebar argument & not wumming as whoever selected is going to hold tackle bags primarily but who has not been given a chance / who should be there instead of him?

                        When I checked realised Schmidt gave Conway his debut after the last world cup, I thought he had made his debut in a friendly prior to the 2015 world cup. Stockdale, Larmour and Conway are back three players Schmidt has capped & brought through, at least two of them will travel.

                        In fairness to Schmidt & Co since the last world cup apart from the three above they have also given debuts in the back three to O’Halloran, Healy, Adeolokun, Sweetnam, Byrne, Addison, Arnold and now Haley. Some real talent there that has for whatever reason not made the leap. Gilroy has played for Schmidt a number of times I am sure there are others currently outside the squad I am forgetting too, barring injury Jared Payne might have still been in the mix. Wooton did not make the jump to representative XVs from sevens, this world cup has just come around too soon for the likes of Balocoune.

                        I don’t think you can argue that someone deserving has not been looked at or given an opportunity – whether they have taken it in the eyes of the coaching team is another question. O’Halloran possibly the biggest disappointment but for whatever reason his face doesn’t seem to fit. I know Kearney bashing is the unofficial second sport here but genuinely think it’s a case that they have gone back to a player they rate ahead of other players they have looked at.

                        I'll get my coat.

                        zactly - O'Halloran and especially Healy seem to be judged by highlights reels (and to be fair they've had some excellent highlights) but they've both shown poor defence in the past and the higher the level, the more your performance will be defined by your defence. Dave Kearney is a solid winger whose primary weakness (pace) is not generally exposed in the Schmitt system, which is why he has selected him (wouldn't have a chance of getting selected for Scotland or Argentina !). If an up and coming winger played the game he did on Saturday, he probably would have received very positive reviews.

                        I think some of the reason he gets a lot of slack is that if selected, it means we don't have a more exiting winger who is solid enough in the other facets of the game. It's a tad depressing, but given our game plan, he is probably the 5th best winger available to us (after Stockdale, Earls, Conway and Larmour). At least it's a relief that Conway should have cemented his place above him after the weekend.

                        Comment


                          Originally posted by LongtimeLurker View Post

                          Have to agree on Carty. In terms of what we have see in his Irish appearances to date he looks just as much to the manor born as Carberry did. If anything he has shown more maturity and game management nous than Joey did in his first few internationals. His style of playing 10 is the most ROGesque since ROG, suits the highly structured game plan we’ve focused on. I don’t think Sexton has been involved in the on field sessions so Carty very much up to speed. Wouldn’t be surprised to see him start and Byrne bench in Twickenham. Losing both Carbery and Sexton would be a disaster but unfortunately chances are there will be a Wally moment for at least one player before the squad is finalised.

                          Dave Kearney as usual getting a lot of stick, it’s not his fault he is in the mix for the RWC squad. If anything it’s the fault of the player development officers in each of the provinces. It’s is worrying that in 4 years on no one else other than Lamour and Stockdale have come through to really establish themselves since the last world cup. IMHO he’s a fine club player, defensively sound, full of heart but just doesn’t have the top of the ground gas for an international winger. Lowe will walk into the squad as soon as he qualifies. Kearney might be exposed against the top sides but if he makes it to Japan, he would be fine against Russia and arguably sensible to use “disposable” defensively sound players as cannon fodder for the rib tickling Samoans – assuming we are three from three at that stage. Once we're through that game its field the best available side every time and you take your chances.

                          In terms of style development the big thing was the cross field kick exit from the 22 -a suicidal tactic to countenance against the better teams. Imagine Hogg or Russell getting on a lose ball in a broken field situation thirty yards out – not what you’d want ideally. Really high risk stuff, cant understand why we practiced it so often it was obviously under direction from the management but not sure for what end

                          For my money Beirne deserves a start at 6 against England to really stake a claim, given other injuries he would be in my 31 on turnover ability alone. Thought Ruddock did well too, TOD and Murphy less prominent. Interesting to see how the back row who didnt pay go against what will be a much tougher English side, Personally will be keeping fingers crossed the Wally moment does not happen for any of Furlong, Ryan, VDF, Ringrose or Stockdale. Other than 10– think the drop off between first and second choice sharpest in these slots.

                          Which you could say about every team in the tournament, plus I disagree, only Furlong and (because of injury) VDF there is a big step down. IMO JR is out most important forward but his deputy's are experianced and able to step up whereas Porter (while promising) has quite abit to go to be seen as any threat to Furlong.

                          Comment


                            Originally posted by LongtimeLurker View Post


                            Sidebar argument & not wumming as whoever selected is going to hold tackle bags primarily but who has not been given a chance / who should be there instead of him?

                            When I checked realised Schmidt gave Conway his debut after the last world cup, I thought he had made his debut in a friendly prior to the 2015 world cup. Stockdale, Larmour and Conway are back three players Schmidt has capped & brought through, at least two of them will travel.

                            In fairness to Schmidt & Co since the last world cup apart from the three above they have also given debuts in the back three to O’Halloran, Healy, Adeolokun, Sweetnam, Byrne, Addison, Arnold and now Haley. Some real talent there that has for whatever reason not made the leap. Gilroy has played for Schmidt a number of times I am sure there are others currently outside the squad I am forgetting too, barring injury Jared Payne might have still been in the mix. Wooton did not make the jump to representative XVs from sevens, this world cup has just come around too soon for the likes of Balocoune.

                            I don’t think you can argue that someone deserving has not been looked at or given an opportunity – whether they have taken it in the eyes of the coaching team is another question. O’Halloran possibly the biggest disappointment but for whatever reason his face doesn’t seem to fit. I know Kearney bashing is the unofficial second sport here but genuinely think it’s a case that they have gone back to a player they rate ahead of other players they have looked at.

                            I'll get my coat.

                            O’Halloran is top of the list of lads who really didn’t get a proper go. Got injured very early on his debut and given very short shrift since. He’s miles better than Kearney, and it’s not just his highlights reel, he’s a quality player.

                            Adeolokun and Healy have their flaws but they’ll score you tries, Healy especially. Kearney won’t, and his defence, when faced with quick elusive runners, isn’t exactly bulletproof (as Argentina showed at the last RWC).

                            Comment


                              Originally posted by LongtimeLurker View Post

                              ....,Personally will be keeping fingers crossed the Wally moment does not happen for any of Furlong, Ryan, VDF, Ringrose or Stockdale. Other than 10– think the drop off between first and second choice sharpest in these slots.

                              I’d add Earls to that list

                              "There are a lot of points that we’ve left behind and this is with a young group. That probably tells you what they’re capable of and that they’re a very good side.

                              Probably next year or the year after next they will take some stopping"

                              Anthony Foley, May 2016. Axel RIP

                              Comment


                                Originally posted by Mr Snrub View Post
                                Ladies and Gentlemen, I'm going all out here but I challenge MF to come up with a player who has amassed so many caps with as little talent as David Kearney. The total is 17 caps.

                                I reckon there are AIL players with as much talent.
                                Fergus McFadden with 34 would run him close.
                                In fairness to both they're hard workers, highly disciplined and clearly coaches see more value in that than more talented backs who lack the effort and discipline like Craig Gilroy

                                Comment

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