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    Originally posted by In Joe we trust View Post

    Dan Coles isn't the best lineout thrower either but NZ look at the full package he delivers and decide it's worth missing the odd lineout. My point was if people were looking to play a more open style of footballer you can't do that with Best at 2.
    True, but you can’t risk a lad as prone to wobbles as Cronin. Impact player but not your starter.

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      Originally posted by In Joe we trust View Post

      Dan Coles isn't the best lineout thrower either but NZ look at the full package he delivers and decide it's worth missing the odd lineout. My point was if people were looking to play a more open style of footballer you can't do that with Best at 2.
      Cronin. Munster man. Happy out if he starts, but Best is also a superb leader...

      Comment


        Coles and Cronin are different players. Coles is a good lineout thrower. Cronin isn't. It's an indictment either of the player or the coaches he's worked under that he hasn't mastered the basics of the position by the age of 33. NZ have had players with similar limitations when they started their careers - Nonu etc., but they fix those deficiencies.

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          I think the World Cup will be a step too far for Rory . He hasn’t been playing great this season and his looked too old . His lucky none of his competition have got their game together .

          When your being held on for your leadership qualities it’s never a good start .

          Too many any players being in the team for what people believe is leadership qualities as opposed to making things happen during the game .
          Oh hidden workrate
          When their numbers dwindled from 50 to 8, the other dwarves began to suspect Hungry

          Comment


            Originally posted by Benji View Post
            I think the World Cup will be a step too far for Rory . He hasn’t been playing great this season and his looked too old . His lucky none of his competition have got their game together .

            When your being held on for your leadership qualities it’s never a good start .

            Too many any players being in the team for what people believe is leadership qualities as opposed to making things happen during the game .
            Oh hidden workrate
            Even if his competition had gotten their act together, Joe will always pick 'his guys' - Best would always have led the team out in Japan, and there are numerous others in this category of leaders on the field, track record if not recent form etc., and guys like Conway- who should really have had a few games at FB (for Ireland- and us, so we can hardly blame Joe)- will probably lose out. I really hope Rory stands up to the test, he has been a great servant to Ireland and Ulster, and I really don't want to see him humbled having been held on to for too long.

            Comment


              Originally posted by In Joe we trust View Post

              Dan Coles isn't the best lineout thrower either but NZ look at the full package he delivers and decide it's worth missing the odd lineout. My point was if people were looking to play a more open style of footballer you can't do that with Best at 2.
              Best not an open field player? re-watch a few of his games.. as well as being an excellent leader he shows up on the pitch as well, rivals some backrow players in poaches and carries when he's at his best
              Nulla semper amicus, servivit mihi, in iniuriam mihi neminem quem non persolvi

              Comment


                Originally posted by Sulla View Post

                Best not an open field player? re-watch a few of his games.. as well as being an excellent leader he shows up on the pitch as well, rivals some backrow players in poaches and carries when he's at his best
                I think the point is that he doesn't do what Cronin does. You have to admit it's a killer argument.

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                  Originally posted by jagawayagain View Post

                  I think the point is that he doesn't do what Cronin does. You have to admit it's a killer argument.
                  Miss the occasional lineout?.. yes, Best can do that as well
                  Nulla semper amicus, servivit mihi, in iniuriam mihi neminem quem non persolvi

                  Comment


                    Originally posted by Oldschoolsocks View Post

                    Very bold statement given Sergio Parisse and Louis Picamoles are still knocking about
                    We’re talking current capability here. Both are well past their peak.

                    The arguments re: Stander and Murray here I have a similar issue with. World class players do what they’re doing for a reason. It’s not like it hasn’t occurred to Stander to look for lay offs, or that Murray has never thought of getting the ball away quicker.

                    They’re executing a plan. A **** plan it may be, but they’re playing to it.
                    "We will not walk in fear, one of another. We will not be driven into an age of unreason if we dig deep into our history and remember we are not descended from fearful men" Edward R Murrow

                    "Little by little, we have been brought into the present condition in which we are able neither to tolerate the evils from which we suffer, nor the remedies we need to cure them." - Livy


                    "I think that progress has been made by two flames that have always been burning in the human heart. The flame of anger against injustice and the flame of hope that you can build a better world" - Tony Benn

                    Comment


                      Originally posted by Balla Boy View Post

                      We’re talking current capability here. Both are well past their peak.

                      The arguments re: Stander and Murray here I have a similar issue with. World class players do what they’re doing for a reason. It’s not like it hasn’t occurred to Stander to look for lay offs, or that Murray has never thought of getting the ball away quicker.

                      They’re executing a plan. A **** plan it may be, but they’re playing to it.
                      The same issues are at play for Munster and Ireland.

                      Comment


                        The trouble about Cronin is that he is a very good rugby player, but not a very good hooker
                        Seven social sins: politics without principles, wealth without work, pleasure without conscience, knowledge without character, commerce without morality, science without humanity, and worship without sacrifice



                        Comment


                          Originally posted by Balla Boy View Post

                          We’re talking current capability here. Both are well past their peak.

                          The arguments re: Stander and Murray here I have a similar issue with. World class players do what they’re doing for a reason. It’s not like it hasn’t occurred to Stander to look for lay offs, or that Murray has never thought of getting the ball away quicker.

                          They’re executing a plan. A **** plan it may be, but they’re playing to it.
                          How come Alby seems to move the ball a lot quicker when playing for Munster than Murray does though?

                          Comment


                            Originally posted by Sulla View Post

                            Miss the occasional lineout?.. yes, Best can do that as well
                            Think Best reasonably handy around the field and has good hands. His clearing out the ruck against NZ with a broken arm a few years back epitomised the man. Don't think that level there over a season but it would be magic if he could hit those heights again for 6-8 weeks. never had Cronin's acceleration but few do over the first few yards. Best has 10 tries for Ireland, while not Keith Wood territory but not too shabby, think its tied 5th in the scoring stakes for all international hookers.

                            Comment


                              Originally posted by scotscor View Post
                              The trouble about Cronin is that he is a very good rugby player, but not a very good hooker
                              His throwing has always been suspect, which made it odd that he never got a run-out in the backrow during his time.

                              Comment


                                Originally posted by In Joe we trust View Post

                                How come Alby seems to move the ball a lot quicker when playing for Munster than Murray does though?

                                Already been stated, Murray is playing to a pre-ordained plan which is box kick so lads at the back of ruck/maul know he will be delayed so they set up better for him.

                                Has to be said, Sarries, are perfecting box kick game with a better chase but doing it week in, week out.

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