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    Brian Moore’s views



    <h1> One week on, and England's future is as clear as mud </h1>
    @@@@SPAN>By Brian Moore@@@@/SPAN>
    <div style="float: left;">@@@@SPAN>Last Updated: @@@@SPAN style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">12:42am [email]GMT@@@@/SPAN>04/12/2006@@@@/SPAN></div>




    I
    have to admit that in writing this piece I have had to walk away twice,
    my head aching, because of the difficulty in defining a consistent
    thread to it.<t></t><t></t><table align="right" border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" width="333"><t><tr><td rowspan="2" width="8"></td><td width="325"><center></center></td></tr><tr><td><center>Confusion reigns: Francis Baron, chief executive of the RFU and chief explainer</center></td></tr></t></table>

    This week has been much the same for England rugby fans. Andy Robinson has resigned/been pushed, but the structural faults, the lack of clarity in the chain of command and the stagnant state of the English game remain.

    Over
    the past week Francis Baron, the RFU's chief executive, Martyn Thomas,
    the chairman of the management board, and Rob Andrew, (not sure what he
    does), all made pronouncements on the English game. If you sought
    clarity from them, then you were looking in the wrong place. I may not
    be the brightest spark, but I am not daft and though I try, I simply
    cannot understand what is going on in many crucial areas of the English
    game. It is the responsibility of the RFU to deliver clarity, not least
    because if, as they say, people do not understand how things work, then
    it is their fault for not explaining things effectively.

    Baron's incursions into rugby matters
    are a result of Sir Clive Woodward's refusal to report to his then
    director of performance, Chris Spice, and his insistence on reporting
    to Baron. Thus, instead of exclusively dedicating himself to things
    corporate, Baron was involved in rugby affairs, something he is not
    qualified to do, but with World Cup success in the offing found
    impossible to resist.

    Interlocutors have sought to
    find out what the future holds in the short and medium term for the
    England team and who is to guide this. Both Baron and Thomas appeared
    to retain for the RFU management board the final decisions in all
    areas, while frantically eschewing responsibility for Robinson's
    appointment in the first place ('not my fault guv') and making it plain
    that Andrew can only make recommendations upon which they may act.<div><div>We'd
    be pretty foolish to ignore recommendations made by Rob," said Thomas.
    But surely that is not the point; the fact that they can ignore them is
    not right. Either Andrew is in charge of all appointments for all
    England management teams or he is not. If not, what is the point of a
    merely advisory role? How can you assess his performance if he is
    provided with the caveat that the actual decisions were not taken by
    him at all?</div></div>

    So you have to ask: what is Andrew's
    true remit? I know what it says on the tin, but this isn't what is
    happening. Andrew, however reluctantly, is being dragged into matters
    minute, something I thought his appointment was deliberately drafted to
    avoid.

    Andrew has said that time will be taken over
    the appointment of Robinson's replacement, and he highlighted that the
    New Year would see the unveiling of the RFU's plans for structural

    #2
    There have been so many articles written recently about the state of the game of rugby in England at the moment and the structure of the management etc. "Why is it so bad", "no one knows what they are doing", and my favourite "How have the 2003 World Cup winners dropped to 7th in the world, this is not possible?" they say repeatedly. Simple, England do not have the players, the management structure is only a small part of the problem, but sometimes the English like to avoid the most obvious of reasons when it is soreist to admit
    http://www.rebelwaves.com

    Comment


      #3


      Don i think the management structure is playing a pretty big part in the whole fiasco as well. Moore although he can be annoying sometimes generally calls it as he sees it, and what he is seeing is the same as everyone else-pish. The RFU don't know if they are coming going or gone and the structure is fecked too, too many chiefs not enough indians.


      Look at IRFU


      Head coach-Eddie


      Forwards-O'Donnovan


      Teachical+Continuity-McLaughlin


      DefenceSteadman


      Kicking, fitness etc etc not sure of names but they are all working together and under Eddie.





      Look now at england:


      Baron-Chief Executive giving his tuppence worth


      Martyn Thomas-Chairman of the management board


      Rob Andrew-director of rugby/manager/twat


      The you have


      Head Coach, Forwards coach, attack coach (who now wants to be head coach), defence coach, kicking coach


      Fair enough we have Phillip Browne and said others but they keep their nose out of where i shouldn't be and rightly so. What the hell are Baron and Thomas doing nit picking over appointments and trying to get involved in playing. If you count Thomas, Baron and Andrew thats 3 more chiefs than we have and the head coach has to report to the three of them. Its a load of f**king s**te if you ask me and the sooner england go back to basics and install 1head coach responsible for the playing side a manager who assists the head coach by getting things done that need done and the structures in place etc and cut the board andc chief exec out because they don't bloody play or coach so why in hells name are they sticking their noses in?!?


      Agree about the players to an extent but there are some good players just not getting the chances because of the state of the Guinness premiership is in with the relegation worry, needing to win to keep the owners happy etc.

      Comment


        #4

        Originally posted by Red Hand Hero

        Don i think the management structure is playing a pretty big part in the whole fiasco as well. Moore although he can be annoying sometimes generally calls it as he sees it, and what he is seeing is the same as everyone else-pish. The RFU don't know if they are coming going or gone and the structure is fecked too, too many chiefs not enough indians.


        Look at IRFU


        Head coach-Eddie


        Forwards-O'Donnovan


        Teachical+Continuity-McLaughlin


        DefenceSteadman


        Kicking, fitness etc etc not sure of names but they are all working together and under Eddie.





        Look now at england:


        Baron-Chief Executive giving his tuppence worth


        Martyn Thomas-Chairman of the management board


        Rob Andrew-director of rugby/manager/twat


        The you have


        Head Coach, Forwards coach, attack coach (who now wants to be head coach), defence coach, kicking coach


        Fair enough we have Phillip Browne and said others but they keep their nose out of where i shouldn't be and rightly so. What the hell are Baron and Thomas doing nit picking over appointments and trying to get involved in playing. If you count Thomas, Baron and Andrew thats 3 more chiefs than we have and the head coach has to report to the three of them. Its a load of f**king s**te if you ask me and the sooner england go back to basics and install 1head coach responsible for the playing side a manager who assists the head coach by getting things done that need done and the structures in place etc and cut the board andc chief exec out because they don't bloody play or coach so why in hells name are they sticking their noses in?!?


        Agree about the players to an extent but there are some good players just not getting the chances because of the state of the Guinness premiership is in with the relegation worry, needing to win to keep the owners happy etc.
        Fully agree with this. I know it's difficult to believe but whether by accident or by design the Irfu has managed to create the ideal conditions for EOS and the squad. But I think that many of the faults in the structure of English rugby have been there for a long while and the W Cup success concreted these faults in.

        Comment


          #5


          My above comment was written in a fed up state after reading Moores article. I agree that the management structure is a shambles but, IMO, this stinks to much like the English football team world cup "shambles", where expectations are so high that people are shocked that an English team can do so badly and quickly point the finger at management. It is important for them to change the whole upper structure, however, the actual player pool is also in Limbo.


          What if the current English team still had the work horses of old, the star players in full fitness and ready to go - Jono, Dal, Hill, Back, Wilkinson, Robinson, Greenwood etc. I think Andy Robinson would still have his job because the team would still be producing the results.


          Once again, I agree that the sturcture is in a bad way, and the only way forward for this English team is a total revamp of the management. But, from reading the many articles being written, there is to much blame being put on the management. What the english public must realise and ADMIT, is that they do not have the players at the moment. If they had the perfect managing structure set up for years now, I think they would still be 7th in the world.


          But players will come through the ranks once again, and England will be the big force they once were, and in 5 years time they will be challenging for the world cup, they just need to be patient and lower that expectation bar for a small while and be realistic, the RFU and the player pool are in transition, but they will come strong again.
          http://www.rebelwaves.com

          Comment


            #6

            Originally posted by DonL

            My above comment was written in a fed up state after reading Moores article. I agree that the management structure is a shambles but, IMO, this stinks to much like the English football team world cup "shambles", where expectations are so high that people are shocked that an English team can do so badly and quickly point the finger at management. It is important for them to change the whole upper structure, however, the actual player pool is also in Limbo.


            What if the current English team still had the work horses of old, the star players in full fitness and ready to go - Jono, Dal, Hill, Back, Wilkinson, Robinson, Greenwood etc. I think Andy Robinson would still have his job because the team would still be producing the results.


            Once again, I agree that the sturcture is in a bad way, and the only way forward for this English team is a total revamp of the management. But, from reading the many articles being written, there is to much blame being put on the management. What the english public must realise and ADMIT, is that they do not have the players at the moment. If they had the perfect managing structure set up for years now, I think they would still be 7th in the world.


            But players will come through the ranks once again, and England will be the big force they once were, and in 5 years time they will be challenging for the world cup, they just need to be patient and lower that expectation bar for a small while and be realistic, the RFU and the player pool are in transition, but they will come strong again.
            That's all fair enough but I think you're being harsh on the English public. I've not met or heard too many people who don't realise what a mess their side is in at the moment. You may have the odd Paul Ackford article which refutes my point but the vast majority realise that they don't really have the players at the moment.

            What's the point? Their system is broken and they need to fix it but they're not in control of the whole system. English people look at the Irish system with it's 16 odd thousand players and wonder why they can't have at least parity given that they have a fully professional league and 210,000 players. So they are right in asking 'where has it gone wrong'. You can be patient if you see progress but I'd like to know if anyone has seen that recently around Twickers.

            Finally, I think most English supporters (that I meet) are hugely realistic about their side. I haven't heard of anyone saying that England are still an outside bet for the world cup. Have you?

            Comment


              #7
              Without a coach or a settled team, it goes without saying England are in difficulty in the short term, but in the mid to long term I don't think England's situation is nearly as grim as some make out.

              It's funny to think that since the World Cup England's worst 6N performance was still better than our best performance during the entire '90s; their loss of experienced players has coincided with an improvement from Ireland and Wales, and more recently, Scotland; which I think has exaggerated their 'dip'.

              It's also worth bearing in mind just how utterly crap we were in the November internationals last year, and how one year later we're being talked up (even by many neutral observers) as second best in the world. Things can change a lot in just one season, I'm surprised just how quickly many in the English media have not just written off the management and some players, but the league and entire rugby structure in the country.

              Munster - Incessant Perfervidity
              "Ireland Will Choke" - Jeremy Guscott

              Comment


                #8


                On the isue of structure, I agree that the Irish structure is working well for us at the moment but it does have its weaknesses.


                Strength in depth is a major area of concern given that we are essentially picking an international team from only 3 clubs.


                It is not a problem at the moment because we have arguable the best group of players in our history.


                Essentially Munster, Leinster and Ulster are all among the top clubs in Europe which is why we have as much depth as we have at present. Even at that we are a bit thin in some positions.


                It would not take much of a dip in the fortunes of the priovinces to cause a major drop in the quality of the national side, so lets not get too complacent about how great our structure is yet.


                In my view, we still need a strong AIL to provide players to the provinces in the long term.The club game is weak and gettng weaker andthis could lead to problems down the road, at which time people will, undoubtedly, be pointing to our structure and bemoaning the fact that our playing base is too concentrated. [img]smileys/wink.gif[/img]

                Comment


                  #9


                  Club success points Ireland towards Grand Slam glory

                  By Brian Moore
                  Last Updated: 1:13am GMT 15/01/2007


                  Given the proximity of the Six Nations the form of the provinces/clubs in the Heineken Cup is of intense interest to fans, coaches and selectors alike; but is it really a reliable guide? Yes, but only to a limited extent and the performances of the various teams this year appear to be a rough reflection of their form hitherto.

                  Ronan O'Gara
                  The real thing: Ronan O'Gara is in fine form for Ireland

                  Take the English teams; none has grabbed the headlines, combining ambitious rugby with forward domination and great basic skills. There have been patches of glory but too few to suggest that even under Brian Ashton England will rampage throughout Europe.

                  Though Wasps and Leicester recorded good wins at the weekend you would be hard pushed to describe either performance as outstanding, while Northampton's position is hugely flattering.

                  On top of this, as Lawrence Dallaglio identified, not all of the England potential first XV play in the competition anyway; it cannot be right that potential World Cup players are not exposed to this standard of competition. Compare this to the Southern Hemisphere where virtually no player is selected, even for a squad, without playing in the Super 14. How do you really judge a player's ability if he is not tested as far as possible? Furthermore, how do you judge if he is not first choice for his team and often plays only a third of the game in circumstances where that game is raven of shape by multiple substitutions.

                  This is a peculiarly English and to a lesser extent French dilemma as the Celtic nations either have provincial representation or most of their clubs have qualified for the Heineken Cup.
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                  Leinster and Munster have once again shown tremendous form in the competition, the former at times playing some scintillating rugby, the latter continuing with their hard-headed pragmatism.

                  This points to a good Six Nations for the Irish, but was their clinical performance against Australia the evidence that they have finally learnt how to win in whatever fashion as dictated by the circumstances that arise in any game, or is it yet another false dawn? The way their half-backs dictated that game was quite unlike any pairing I have seen from Ireland. In years past they have had one great player in either of the positions but never a great partnership. Boss and O'Gara looked the real thing against the Aussies, driving the pack forward and releasing the talented backline at the right time and getting the necessary variation.

                  What is true is that this year they have the best chance, probably in their history, to win a Grand Slam and mount a credible challenge in the World Cup. If they don't do it now when will it happen?

                  For the Welsh it is imperative that Peel and Stephen Jones are fit and on form. The form shown by this pair for Llanelli, shows again that they are probably the best half-back pairing in Europe. Without them, Wales cannot unlock the attacking options they have outside and without that they cannot hope to win games against quality opposition. James Hook will be an outstanding fly-half and is my favourite to take over from the current Welsh captain, but the understanding between Peel and Jones as a pair raises their contribution to Wales above the customary answer to the question – 'what is one plus one?'.

                  This is a lesson that Brian Ashton would do well to heed and a lesson Andy Robinson, his predecessor, ignored; units have to have proper balance to function at their best, you cannot just pick the best two players and assume they will gel.

                  Unfortunately for Wales I have the feeling that this year their pack could struggle to provide the right quality of ball for their talented backs. In the second row they have little or

                  Comment


                    #10
                    French may have more talent than All Blacks

                    By Brian Moore
                    Last Updated: 1:12am BST 27/08/2007



                    "Only in Cardiff," was the plaintive comment of the legendary Jonathan Davies. Having been refused access to the Millennium Approach by a young traffic warden, we then went round the corner to find someone who might have been born when the maestro graced the Cardiff turf.


                    Finding the said lady, she radioed again telling her supremo that she had Jonathan Davies wanting to go to the stadium. Just then, the regimental mascot of the Royal Welsh, a goat, arrived and the lady, Sue, added that she also had the goat here. After a short, breathless wait the answer came - "OK, the goat can come in and I suppose Jonathan can go with it." How mighty are the fallen, reliant on a goat - well I suppose it makes a change from a sheep.

                    Serge Betsen
                    Captain invincible: Serge Betsen was strong in defence and attack

                    That wasn't the only odd thing about yesterday's game between Wales and France. In spite of baking sunshine, the stadium roof was closed, an attempt to replicate what the Welsh will face in the World Cup.

                    I bet they will not want to face onslaughts like the ones they faced in both opening 10-minute periods. The French simply unloaded on them with pace, precision and points.

                    Sebastien Chabal was shoved into the second row, but that didn't stop him making a number of trademark runs, the like of which must be to stand in front of an articulated lorry. This brutally physical approach was matched by the French captain Serge Betsen who made shuddering impacts in defence and attack.

                    I've always had severe doubts about the wisdom, and sometimes the sanity of Bernard Laporte, the French coach. Hitherto, there can have been no doubt about the justification of such thoughts. However, looking at the French team, away from home, playing a near full-strength Wales team and hammering them, playing with maybe only two thirds of their starting XV, I admit that I might possibly be wrong. I know this is a fantastic possibility, but Herr Flick has assembled almost two teams, the majority of whom are talented and now have significant international experience.
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                    It is arguable that they have even more talent than the All Blacks - and they will be at home in the World Cup. If they gain a momentum like their football team did, they could be on to win their first trophy. The essential question is whether Laporte can settle his first XV. It is all very well playing about with selection, but during a World Cup you have to achieve stability. I do not believe you can make four or five changes each game, or between games, and hope to reach the required level of consistency.

                    If they get this stability they are the world's - not just the northern hemisphere's - best chance of beating the All Blacks.Added to undoubted attacking talent, they have added formidable defence, under the tutelage of a Yorkshireman, Dave Ellis, leading their defensive planning, and you know that Yorkshiremen never give 'owt away.

                    The Welsh are in tatters at the worst possible time. They had only the consolation of scoring the one try conceded by France in three games. Not only have they been thrashed home and away by England and France, they have worries over key players. Gareth Thomas, Stephen Jones and Dafydd James are all desperately needed if the Welsh are to make an impression; they are needed to direct strategy and give Wales a backbone of experie

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Did the man even see the replays of the incident? I think not.
                      Shameless self promotion time ladies and gents!
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                      Comment


                        #12

                        Originally posted by Cathal
                        Did the man even see the replays of the incident? I think not.
                        Do you mean the Hook "try" - if so I agree with you - it was never a try.

                        But France looked great - I simply can't wait to see them beat the sh@@@@SPAN style="font-style: italic;">i@@@@/SPAN>te out of Cooder's duds.

                        New infraction avoidance policy: a post may be described as imbecilic, but its author should never be described as an imbecile.

                        Comment


                          #13
                          If France are 12/1 still, they are well worth a wager in the real world which might even cover the exes. Meanwhile back at the ranch, Moore pretty much tells it like it is in camp Cooder. Without BOD we are ridiculously bad. Yes, we could even go as far as the great scribe of Dublin himself and say we're;
                          "foocked".
                          Not Con ya gobs**te, Brendan.

                          Who was the guy in the bible that led the Israelites out of the desert after wandering for 40 years? His initials were't BOD per chance? We need him now whomever. We probably need Noah too after forty days and forty nights of rain. He wasn't an O'D by chance either, making him NOD? And Michael the archangel would come in handy too if we could enlist his help. If he was a member of the clan his initials would be MOD - no, definitely not him. If Briano can lead us out of this mess, then surely he is the annointed one and that B will have to give way to G for once and for all. Some have held this to be indisputable from an early stage in his development. Lets hope it doesn't end up like the life of Brian though!

                          The coach has to carry the can for a lot of that. Maybe any team would miss a great player such as he, but I have to say the degree of disruption his absence brings to Ireland is quite incredible. He doesn't play in the front row, the second row, the back row, half back nor back three, right? Yet, his presence and more so his absence, seems to influence the performance of all areas.

                          But maybe there is a straw in the wind somewhere? Could the dagger have been sheathed last Friday night and a kind of a pup been sold to the opposition? Is there a silver lining somewhere over the rainbow? Or maybe it's down the yellow brick road? Did we pretend to be the runt of the group and on September 21 will reveal all?

                          Anything, please lads. I have to be able to convinve her it's worth going!

                          Always look on the bright side of life, de dum de dum....[img]smileys/lol.gif[/img]

                          Hello friends in Brussels. Baldy here

                          Comment


                            #14

                            Prepare for big surprises at Rugby World Cup

                            By Brian Moore


                            The phoney war is nearly over; D-day is nigh and the beaches, well at least the bars, of France await the landing of foreign troops intent on liberating the French of their alcohol and England of their World Cup crown. The latter will prove substantially easier than the former, but unlike the previous tournament this one has the potential for shock and awe.

                            Only the beating of the All Blacks by the Aussies was a genuine surprise last time round; apart from that all the other results went to plan. No giant-killings, only a few nervous moments for the eventual champions against the Samoans and the Welsh.

                            John Smit of South Africa - Prepare for big surprises at the Rugby World Cup
                            Key man: The fitness of John Smit to face England is paramount

                            Contrast the potential for upset provided by the draw and the form of the combatants in this, the sixth Rugby World Cup and you will see a competition that is truly difficult to call; and the better for it.

                            I defy anyone, other than the fervently nationalistic, to view their team's challenge without some real doubt.

                            The finest of margins turn close international games and the spectre of injury is one which can completely derail a team's challenge. New Zealand never recovered from the loss of Tana Umaga in 2003, and significant worries over the fitness of Stirling Mortlock, of Australia, and John Smit, of South Africa, may prove as crucial as any refereeing decision or missed penalties.

                            If there is any certainty it is that for the RWC to be a substantial success, it needs the host nation, France, to progress far into the knock-out stages. The tricky opening game against Argentina is not the start 'Herr Flick', French coach Bernard Laporte, would have chosen. Few openers have proved classic games; fraught with expectation and tension, they almost always disappoint. Entertainment will be far down the list of priorities for the French, who absolutely must win not only for their own sake, but for the tournament as a whole. The French public are well capable of withdrawing their support for the whole affair, commensurate with the converse patronage they bestowed on their soccer World Cup victory.

                            It is pool D that offers the biggest headaches for the bookies. It contains the sides ranked No 3, 5 and 6 in the world and if any of them have a slow start, they will find themselves back home pronto.

                            To those of us who see this as the best squad ever assembled by Ireland, the game against Argentina assumes the operational significance of the American landings on Omaha beach.

                            @@@@SPAN style="font-weight: bold;">Eddie O'Sullivan, resplendent with a new four-year contract even before the start of Ireland's campaign, is the one who is likely to be battling bouts of insomnia. His captain, Brian O'Driscoll, is injured and his team are out of form. It is no good having all the talent in the world if it fails to fire when needed. It would only take Paul O'Connell to have another bout of walkabout and Ireland would not get out of the group. Were this to happen, should you really have already rewarded the architect with four more years?@@@@/SPAN>

                            Of the three, Argentina have the least pressure. They have a chance of progressing and have the knowledge that they have good recent records against both France and Ireland. They also know that, this time round, they have a bit of flair in the backs to go with their traditional grunt up front.

                            Their continued exclusion from both the Six Nations and Tri-Nations is a scandal perpetrated by the self-interest of the prevailing superpowers who want the status quo. Any attempt by the IRB genuinely to grow the game worldwide runs smack into these tow blocks and unless the IRB forces change, which they cannot because they are run by the very same interests, all they say is lip service.
                            <b

                            Comment


                              #15
                              hes getting better, in his first piece it took him 5 lines to mention something about the @@@@SPAN style="font-weight: bold;">army @@@@/SPAN>and as many as 7 paragraphs to mention something to do with the @@@@SPAN style="font-weight: bold;">germans@@@@/SPAN> (is @@@@SPAN style="font-style: italic; font-weight: bold;">herr flick@@@@/SPAN> something to do with that sensational english comedy@@@@SPAN style="font-style: italic;"> allo allo?@@@@/SPAN>) whilst in his latest piece @@@@SPAN style="font-weight: bold;">war@@@@/SPAN> is mentioned after 3 words! a reference to the 2nd @@@@SPAN style="font-weight: bold;">world war@@@@/SPAN> after 7 mightly cerebral and thought proving utterances and @@@@SPAN style="font-weight: bold;">foreign @@@@/SPAN>(one of their current favourites is mentioned in the first line.

                              well done brian but wheres the references to diana?

                              tut tut

                              If the lessons of history teach us anything it is that nobody learns the lessons that history teaches us.

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