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Leinster 2018/19

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    Nulla semper amicus, servivit mihi, in iniuriam mihi neminem quem non persolvi

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      When's Tommy O'Donnell's expected return to play?
      Tis but a scratch.

      Comment


        Originally posted by mr chips View Post
        When's Tommy O'Donnell's expected return to play?
        I’d say order the bubble wrap suit for him anyway.
        When their numbers dwindled from 50 to 8, the other dwarves began to suspect Hungry

        Comment


          Originally posted by mr chips View Post
          When's Tommy O'Donnell's expected return to play?
          That's what I was wondering. Could be perfect timing for the lad and after the number of setbacks he's had it would be a bit of a fairytale for the lad to go to the RWC. He's a quality athlete when on his game and he complements POM and CJ well.

          Comment


            Originally posted by Sulla View Post
            McGrath confirmed move to Ulster, surely questions must be asked of the Leinster management with so many senior players deciding to jump ship...????
            Second year in succession a player has wiped his arse with a contract and pissed off to suit themselves. Really not good enough that this is encouraged by the IRFU as it makes it next to impossible for the management to plan for the future. If players Leave at the end of a contract that’s their business but this is not on. Hopefully Leo speaks up this time because he took it like a chump last year and sure enough it happened again.

            Comment


              Originally posted by Joe Konys barmy army View Post

              Second year in succession a player has wiped his arse with a contract and pissed off to suit themselves. Really not good enough that this is encouraged by the IRFU as it makes it next to impossible for the management to plan for the future. If players Leave at the end of a contract that’s their business but this is not on. Hopefully Leo speaks up this time because he took it like a chump last year and sure enough it happened again.
              Seriously/sincerely- rather than just intrude on private grief- the bigger picture is worth thinking about.

              We have obviously benefitted recently, but we also lost, painfully-eg Zebo and Donnacha Ryan, we’ve also lost a lot of lads to France. I completely take the point about contract ends etc, so please don’t think I’m trying to irritate you. It hurts when players you like leave- whenever they do. You’ve also had an influx from Connacht in recent years. I’m not saying what goes around comes around etc, It’s a serious point. The other side of the coin is that the flexibility that is now present allows guys to build a career elsewhere in the island, and are thus not to the Irish game, and get the game time that may allow them to thrive/progress, rather than wait and vegetate. Had we not had the fragility at 10 we’ve had, I’d like JJ or Keats to have gone north or west (you didn’t need one), they didn’t, and (arguably) they stagnated.

              It it would be good if IRFU would share the thinking/plan on all of this inter-provincial traffic. If there isn’t a plan, we need to have one- because, as you say, badly handled it could ruin things for provinces, handled well it could benefit both provinces and Ireland.

              Comment


                Originally posted by Joe Konys barmy army View Post

                Second year in succession a player has wiped his arse with a contract and pissed off to suit themselves. Really not good enough that this is encouraged by the IRFU as it makes it next to impossible for the management to plan for the future. If players Leave at the end of a contract that’s their business but this is not on. Hopefully Leo speaks up this time because he took it like a chump last year and sure enough it happened again.
                Sure ye guys have a pipeline.

                Does he stay to be second fiddle or play first team rugby up the road?

                Comment


                  It's gonna keep happening, what would be of discussion if I were a leinster fan is why the guys that are leaving because they feel they're not getting a crack of the whip are proving so excellent for other provinces?

                  McGrath Loughman Moore Beirne Jordy Cooney Carbery Kelleher Niysi Farrell Conway and so forth.

                  It's odd to my eye that there are some players who just seem to explode for new sides after waiting for a shot with Leinster


                  It's bound to happen like, the population concentration all but guarantees it's going to continue, but are there any lads who've left at the expense of an inferior player remaining?
                  I am the million man.

                  Comment


                    Originally posted by Cowboy View Post
                    are there any lads who've left at the expense of an inferior player remaining?

                    Zebo and Ryan.

                    Comment


                      All the post match talk has been about Stockdale and how he needs to grow and learn etc. Stockdale was the best back on the field, the only one who could've created such an opportunity.
                      I haven't heard anyone from the media mention how bad Ringrose was. Those two blocked kicks couldn't have been more telegraphed if he tried.

                      Comment


                        Originally posted by Cowboy View Post
                        It's gonna keep happening, what would be of discussion if I were a leinster fan is why the guys that are leaving because they feel they're not getting a crack of the whip are proving so excellent for other provinces?

                        McGrath Loughman Moore Beirne Jordy Cooney Carbery Kelleher Niysi Farrell Conway and so forth.

                        It's odd to my eye that there are some players who just seem to explode for new sides after waiting for a shot with Leinster


                        It's bound to happen like, the population concentration all but guarantees it's going to continue, but are there any lads who've left at the expense of an inferior player remaining?
                        Loads of different reasons why a player might not prosper in Leinster. Some of it is down to quality of players in front, others might be injured at the wrong time, others simply develop at a later time. Sometimes when their chance comes along the player just doesn't play well enough and finds themselves down the pecking order. Sometimes Leinster get it badly wrong. It's not an exact science.

                        I think a lot of them do well at other teams because they're generally good players.

                        McGrath - an international quality prop who has lost form and found himself on the bench due to Healy's resurgence and injuries for Jack. He's never struck me as an impact sub and needs to be starting games for his province to get back to his best.

                        Loughman - behind four other looseheads when he left who, IMO, are all better than him. Doesn't mean he's a bad player just unlucky.

                        Moore - was struggling with injury and had dropped behind an exceptional player in Furlong. But for the emergence of Porter while Moore was in Coventry I'd imagine Leinster would have been very keen to bring him back.

                        Beirne - had injury problems and admitted himself that when he got a chance in the team during the last RWC he didn't play well. Leinster let go a few decent 2nd rows so they have to take some blame for not giving him more chances. Think this has changed since Beirne left.

                        Jordi - Leinster had a phenomenal group of back-rows with international quality players not guaranteed to make matchday 23's. He moved to try and get a regular spot. Real shame to lose him as he was much appreciated by Leinster. Would love to have him back.

                        Cooney - struggled to get game-time behind Reddan and Boss with McGrath coming up quickly behind him. Wasn't exactly great at Connacht either.

                        Joey - still too pissed off at the shenanigans around his move to comment rationally on this

                        Kelleher - he had a right to be pissed off when he didn't get selected under Matt O'Connor, but didn't really impress when included in Cullen's first season. He's not short of self-confidence so backed himself at Connacht. Not sure why he's returning.

                        Farrell - loads of injuries plus Leinster brought in a number of centres into the academy in the years around BOD and Darce's retirement. Some prospered, others didn't.

                        Conway - he got plenty of chances at Leinster. Not sure there's been any others who had 40+ appearances by the age of 21. Thought he was a little impatient in his decision to leave (when he announced it) although missing the Matt O'Connor years turned out to be for the best, probably.

                        Comment


                          Originally posted by jagawayagain View Post

                          Seriously/sincerely- rather than just intrude on private grief- the bigger picture is worth thinking about.

                          We have obviously benefitted recently, but we also lost, painfully-eg Zebo and Donnacha Ryan, we’ve also lost a lot of lads to France. I completely take the point about contract ends etc, so please don’t think I’m trying to irritate you. It hurts when players you like leave- whenever they do. You’ve also had an influx from Connacht in recent years. I’m not saying what goes around comes around etc, It’s a serious point. The other side of the coin is that the flexibility that is now present allows guys to build a career elsewhere in the island, and are thus not to the Irish game, and get the game time that may allow them to thrive/progress, rather than wait and vegetate. Had we not had the fragility at 10 we’ve had, I’d like JJ or Keats to have gone north or west (you didn’t need one), they didn’t, and (arguably) they stagnated.

                          It it would be good if IRFU would share the thinking/plan on all of this inter-provincial traffic. If there isn’t a plan, we need to have one- because, as you say, badly handled it could ruin things for provinces, handled well it could benefit both provinces and Ireland.
                          Of course when you see somebody who moved on playing well at another province they’re can be regret but that’s not what has me personally grieving. There were 5 leinster men in the Ulster starting 15 last Saturday and no Leinster fan had an issue with any of them. Conway and Bernie playing for Munster the same.

                          The only issue I have is players breaking their contracts move and the problems that can create for us planning for the future particularly if it starts happening every year. Against ulster we didn’t have an out half on the bench because we only have two in the senior squad and one is injured. This time last year we knew we had 3 under contract for this season so we didn’t strengthen in that position. By the time Joey moved it was too late to get some reasonable cover and we ended up playing a year 2 academy player who probably won’t end up a 10 there for a lot of the season.

                          You can talk about the bigger picture but for Ulster have been filling up their team with project players and Leinster players for some time now and they only had one player in the 23 for the first couple of rounds of the U20 six nations. So by giving provinces no incentive to develop players it turns out they won’t bother and long term you make the base smaller.

                          Comment


                            Originally posted by Joe Konys barmy army View Post

                            Of course when you see somebody who moved on playing well at another province they’re can be regret but that’s not what has me personally grieving. There were 5 leinster men in the Ulster starting 15 last Saturday and no Leinster fan had an issue with any of them. Conway and Bernie playing for Munster the same.

                            The only issue I have is players breaking their contracts move and the problems that can create for us planning for the future particularly if it starts happening every year. Against ulster we didn’t have an out half on the bench because we only have two in the senior squad and one is injured. This time last year we knew we had 3 under contract for this season so we didn’t strengthen in that position. By the time Joey moved it was too late to get some reasonable cover and we ended up playing a year 2 academy player who probably won’t end up a 10 there for a lot of the season.

                            You can talk about the bigger picture but for Ulster have been filling up their team with project players and Leinster players for some time now and they only had one player in the 23 for the first couple of rounds of the U20 six nations. So by giving provinces no incentive to develop players it turns out they won’t bother and long term you make the base smaller.
                            I got your point- and didn’t think it was other than a genuine point about the value of contracts. And it’s easy to have a cheap point backwards and forwards- but I think this raises issues which don’t just affect a particular team, but our rugby as a whole.

                            I think most/all of our provinces value the local very heavily, and we’d love to have a full squad of outstanding locals/failing that IQ. We deserve, and will succeed, more where we don’t accept mediocre players just because they are local.

                            Such is the Leinster demographic, and the numbers of rugby playing schools, their organisation etc, you guys produce continually more promising players than can play at the highest level with Leinster. Other provinces have smaller numbers on the development path, and inevitably there are fallow years. That’s why there may be a block of years when there’s nothing that good coming through. That’s when it’s good for the Irish game, and the success of the provinces, for players to be more mobile than they were. To be honest, I believe that such is the pride in local area that there isn’t much danger provinces will just give up on developing their own, and rely on players who are not (yet?) good enough to make it in Leinster. I really do think the Ulster recruitment is because of a fallow period- painful as it is at the moment.

                            Again I would say that while I see the mobility as a positive thing, it is something that needs to be carefully managed rather than allowed to just develop. I understand the point you are making and fully agree with it.

                            Comment


                              id say its very disappointing as a leinster fan to see players depart especially mid contract but when the contracts are central contracts then correct me if i am wrong then the paymaster is the Irfu not the club so they in some ways call the shots rightly or wrongly.
                              if the show was on the other foot at it was munster payers departing i would not be happy either.
                              one thing that is sometimes overlooked is that we as supporters and died in the wool supporters may never countenance supporting a bitter rival but players are pragmatic, careers are short and they want to play games and achieve the ultimate aim ie represent their country , they mix and get on well with players from other provinces and im sure are in the know what players are needed etc at clubs.

                              Comment


                                On a different and sad story, someone sent me a link to footage of Dan Leavy's injury , jesus poor lad it looks horrific and reportedly as bad an injury as Leinster medics have seen.
                                Hope for his sake that recovery goes well and that he can resume playing again at some stage, a real shame as he is a fine player for Leinster and Ireland and will be missed at World Cup time. All the best with your recovery Dan from Munsterfans .

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