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  • deltared
    replied
    Originally posted by sewa View Post
    Glasgow are the best team in the league this year
    ...todate!! Theres always a first time, this might be it.

    Leave a comment:


  • sewa
    replied
    Originally posted by deltared View Post
    The Scots have never featured at the business end to date.
    Glasgow are the best team in the league this year

    Leave a comment:


  • the plastic paddy
    replied
    I really think folk, including Lenihan need to hold their nerve and wait and see where things are post the RWC. There is a truce in England but the Nigel's will throw their toys when there is a mass exodus of England players to France post 2015 as there was post 2011. The Gloucester side Munster played in January contained two Gloucester lads, English players have little to no club loyalty and will be off to fill their boots with no RWC to keep them in England. PRL and Ireland will not be able to compete with T14 but PRL will not accept that and that is all the rope they need to hang themselves. Ireland must keep doing what it has been doing until the RWC, after that all bets are off IMHO.

    Leave a comment:


  • ormond lad
    replied
    Originally posted by dropkick View Post
    Although I don't agree with everything he said, its good to see Lenihan raise the issue. Theres no point waiting until the last minute again and having everyone jump ship. Start exploring options now and have a few options to bring to the table next time.


    Throughout history the Celts have been defeated by divide and conquer. And so it happened again. If theres any good to come out of this its that the Pro 12 unions and teams have been thought a harsh lesson and they should learn from their mistakes.


    There are a few things I would do.


    Expand the league. There are teams from all over Europe who would love to join. Problem is they need a helping hand. This is a long term solution but as deltared said above, as you sow, so you shall reap. Super rugby is aggressively expanding, looking throughout the world for new teams because they know it would open up new markets which they need in the long term. Geography is against them but it doesn't stop them.


    All the Pro12 need do is look around Europe. For starters I would look to the Cornish Pirates. They've just been given a minority status from the EU and they're proud of their Celtic heritage. They could be a nice fit. Being an English team would also send out a statement and be good for the image of the league as well as get the English clubs worried. London Irish would also be a consideration.


    I would also look to the Basque country and Brittany even Romania and (Western) Russia should be invited to apply with teams. I posted about Brussels before and German rugby could be a potential goldmine. Its not easy to set up rugby teams without money but the Pro12, IRB, FFR and RFU should be looking at it like an investment and a safety net. The more teams in the league means a greater audience and you also have more unions backing you so greater numbers when the next round of talks come about.


    Organise the league differently. More teams will weaken the quality but they could have a cut off point mid season where the bottom and top are seperated and play each other for the rest of the season. That would allow higher quality games in the top division and it would also stop many of the one sided scorelines.


    As far at teaming up with the PRL.... its not for me. They wouldn't want it and if it did happen it would be on their terms. Personally I'd prefer the Pro12 to evolve instead of scrapping it and joining an Anglo Irish league.


    The Welsh are the leagues biggest problem. Not so much their team strength but the real problem is their attitude to the league. They do have diehard fans but theres so much negativity and running the league down at every opportunity that it causes damage. In reality the league has been great for Wales, Ireland and European rugby. Lehihan would also do well to think about talking the league down. There are weak teams but also Glasgow, Connacht and Zebre are moving forward.
    Expanding the league would be great but you need a decent return on teams coming in and would we get that?
    There isn't a hope of Cornish Pirates etc and trying to get sides like that would just piss off the RFU etc and we don't need to look to do that if we are to look to improving/expanding the league.
    League has been great for us but hasn't been great for Welsh overall.

    Leave a comment:


  • kahalui
    replied
    Originally posted by dropkick View Post
    I would also look to the Basque country and Brittany even Romania and (Western) Russia should be invited to apply with teams. I posted about Brussels before and German rugby could be a potential goldmine. Its not easy to set up rugby teams without money but the Pro12, IRB, FFR and RFU should be looking at it like an investment and a safety net. The more teams in the league means a greater audience and you also have more unions backing you so greater numbers when the next round of talks come about.
    Can't see it happening or them being competitive enough if it did. The first Basque team finished 6th (won 12, lost 10) this season in the 'División de Honor'- the Spanish league.

    Leave a comment:


  • dropkick
    replied
    Although I don't agree with everything he said, its good to see Lenihan raise the issue. Theres no point waiting until the last minute again and having everyone jump ship. Start exploring options now and have a few options to bring to the table next time.


    Throughout history the Celts have been defeated by divide and conquer. And so it happened again. If theres any good to come out of this its that the Pro 12 unions and teams have been thought a harsh lesson and they should learn from their mistakes.


    There are a few things I would do.


    Expand the league. There are teams from all over Europe who would love to join. Problem is they need a helping hand. This is a long term solution but as deltared said above, as you sow, so you shall reap. Super rugby is aggressively expanding, looking throughout the world for new teams because they know it would open up new markets which they need in the long term. Geography is against them but it doesn't stop them.


    All the Pro12 need do is look around Europe. For starters I would look to the Cornish Pirates. They've just been given a minority status from the EU and they're proud of their Celtic heritage. They could be a nice fit. Being an English team would also send out a statement and be good for the image of the league as well as get the English clubs worried. London Irish would also be a consideration.


    I would also look to the Basque country and Brittany even Romania and (Western) Russia should be invited to apply with teams. I posted about Brussels before and German rugby could be a potential goldmine. Its not easy to set up rugby teams without money but the Pro12, IRB, FFR and RFU should be looking at it like an investment and a safety net. The more teams in the league means a greater audience and you also have more unions backing you so greater numbers when the next round of talks come about.


    Organise the league differently. More teams will weaken the quality but they could have a cut off point mid season where the bottom and top are seperated and play each other for the rest of the season. That would allow higher quality games in the top division and it would also stop many of the one sided scorelines.


    As far at teaming up with the PRL.... its not for me. They wouldn't want it and if it did happen it would be on their terms. Personally I'd prefer the Pro12 to evolve instead of scrapping it and joining an Anglo Irish league.


    The Welsh are the leagues biggest problem. Not so much their team strength but the real problem is their attitude to the league. They do have diehard fans but theres so much negativity and running the league down at every opportunity that it causes damage. In reality the league has been great for Wales, Ireland and European rugby. Lehihan would also do well to think about talking the league down. There are weak teams but also Glasgow, Connacht and Zebre are moving forward.

    Leave a comment:


  • outside inside
    replied
    Has the HC not taught the clear lesson that the PRL are not to be trusted . And that was in a cup competition. Do you think that they will be different in a league competition ? Their model is not sustainable , the initial sugar daddies have by and large given way to new sugar daddies and despite all the investment the majority of their clubs are losing money and will continue to do so .
    Before we give up on the Rabo we should reform it and fully back it . There is clear scope for it to grow, exhaust all those avenues before you even look at folding it .

    Leave a comment:


  • múmhan matt
    replied
    Originally posted by deltared View Post
    I was watching when Donal L said that. Conor O'Shea was only slightly less surprised than me. When I got over my initial shock and thought about it I could a lot of sense in what he was saying. It certainly appears that the "Celtic Front" has been smashed to pieces for any future negotiations on the future of NH rugby. We were aware of the Welsh shenanigans beforehand, what with the civil war between Union & Regions, but the Scots seem to have done untold damage by their devious dealings, such so that they won't be trusted again. If that is indeed the case then the writing is literally on the wall for the Rabo/Celtic League or call it what you like. The Scots have never featured at the business end to date , the Welsh are losing the entire corps of their frontliners, the level of competition is in freefall. I think he's right on both looking after ourselves first and foremost and on looking for a more competitive environment for the future. I also agree with Glorob, the 6N is now facing relegation to a secondary competition at the hands of the PRL & it's ilk, all due to the supine attitude and action of the IRB. It won't stop with the 6N, the IRB will become irrelevant sooner rather than later.

    As you sow, so shall you reap.
    Agree with you on those points. If we don't sort the future for ourselves we are going to be at the mercy of others when the next cutting of the cake comes up. The Scots cant be trusted now and the Welsh are at civil war (can trust themselves!). Not allies to rely on as we found out. Secure the future for Irish rugby or die a slow death. Not much choice really.

    Leave a comment:


  • deltared
    replied
    I was watching when Donal L said that. Conor O'Shea was only slightly less surprised than me. When I got over my initial shock and thought about it I could a lot of sense in what he was saying. It certainly appears that the "Celtic Front" has been smashed to pieces for any future negotiations on the future of NH rugby. We were aware of the Welsh shenanigans beforehand, what with the civil war between Union & Regions, but the Scots seem to have done untold damage by their devious dealings, such so that they won't be trusted again. If that is indeed the case then the writing is literally on the wall for the Rabo/Celtic League or call it what you like. The Scots have never featured at the business end to date , the Welsh are losing the entire corps of their frontliners, the level of competition is in freefall. I think he's right on both looking after ourselves first and foremost and on looking for a more competitive environment for the future. I also agree with Glorob, the 6N is now facing relegation to a secondary competition at the hands of the PRL & it's ilk, all due to the supine attitude and action of the IRB. It won't stop with the 6N, the IRB will become irrelevant sooner rather than later.

    As you sow, so shall you reap.

    Leave a comment:


  • Reus
    replied
    Originally posted by Tonic wine
    Great thread,if the welsh and scots can't get there ass in gear a merger would be in our best interests.A home unions league with 22 teams involved would be some comp.Just play everyone once.If the English clubs fall behind the french clubs they may be tempted
    With equal meritocratic ownership? Dream on.

    If the English fall further behind the French they'll do exactly as they do in Soccer after falling behind the Spanish. Spin, Spin and spin some more. Premier League is apparently the "most competitive", has none of that diving nonsense, has the best "drama" and sure isn't La Liga just a two team league?

    Leave a comment:


  • Reus
    replied
    Rowing in behind the PRL is not a solution to anything.
    The IRFU have always operated on a model of resting top players in the league and playing them in the European Cup. We now have a structure where we can win the league at a canter with rotated sides and which presents the realistic opportunity for all 4 provinces to qualify for Europe every year. It's ideal unless the IRFU are willing to ditch the player management scheme, which according to our top internationals is the primary reason they're choosing to stay in Ireland over going to France.

    Leave a comment:


  • rathbaner
    replied
    Originally posted by glorob View Post
    Unfortunately adopting a strategy of every man for himself is playing right into the hands of those who pull the strings in PRL. They adopted a strategy of divide and conquer and it has worked for them.They have destroyed the Heineken Cup and we may well be witnessing the beginning of the end of the 6 Nations as a great tournament.

    The future is none too bright at present.
    which begs the question. Do we go down with the others. ..?

    Leave a comment:


  • glorob
    replied
    Unfortunately adopting a strategy of every man for himself is playing right into the hands of those who pull the strings in PRL. They adopted a strategy of divide and conquer and it has worked for them.They have destroyed the Heineken Cup and we may well be witnessing the beginning of the end of the 6 Nations as a great tournament.

    The future is none too bright at present.

    Leave a comment:


  • Munsterboy
    replied
    The biggest problem with the Rabo is that the Scots and Welsh made a bit of a balls of adapting to pro rugby and have never recovered. The Scots are sort of getting their act together but the Welsh are going down the pan altogether.

    If their two unions had shown a bit of unity and backbone when facing off against the PRL and RRW threats to our league we might have been able start putting things on a sound footing. However, given the shenanigans that went on, it increasingly looks like it's every man for himself. The way things stand the Welsh and Scots are going to continue to struggle and the league will decline as a consequence.

    IMO the IRFU should be meeting with the SRU and WRU to start planning how to fix this mess but, unless they get some genuine engagement and a realistic plan to sort out their teams' performance in the very near future, they should start looking for alternatives immediately. If that means planning a British and Irish league or whatever, so be it.

    Leave a comment:


  • '78 - I was three
    replied
    Originally posted by rathbaner View Post
    ... be prepared to think outside the box and not be left on the outside looking in...
    Am I inside the box looking out at my thoughts?
    I'm confused - maybe I'm not the sharpest tool in the box?
    Maybe I should box clever and keep one foot in the box?
    Is this Pandora's box?

    Perhaps I would understand if I was off my box.

    Leave a comment:

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