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    #46
    Originally posted by lawrence View Post

    That’s fair enough so, you think people should be allowed to say and do as the please like be a racist, a homophobe, antisemite etc etc as long as it’s behind closed doors and there should be no consequences.
    I never once said do and nobody can do what they want and nor should they be allowed. They were found not guilty of rape so therefore not rapists and did nothing wrong. And yes people should be allowed say what they want. You don't have to agree with them and it can be completely wrong but they should be allowed say whatever they want.

    Absolutely agree with the point about the "pisser". His behaviour was on a Leinster night out and therefore has that not got more to do with the game than Jackson and Olding and what they do in their own time.

    Comment


      #47
      Originally posted by LimerickRugbyFan View Post

      I never once said do and nobody can do what they want and nor should they be allowed. They were found not guilty of rape so therefore not rapists and did nothing wrong. And yes people should be allowed say what they want. You don't have to agree with them and it can be completely wrong but they should be allowed say whatever they want.

      Absolutely agree with the point about the "pisser". His behaviour was on a Leinster night out and therefore has that not got more to do with the game than Jackson and Olding and what they do in their own time.

      That’s the thing people can’t say what the like, you can bring up Falou if you like but people can’t just say what they like.

      You said those lads did nothing wrong, you either know very little about the events of that night as laid out in the trial or you find them acceptable, hopefully the former because the way they treated that girl was disgusting, innocent of rape doesn’t mean they are innocent of treating a young vulnerable girl horribly on the night and then making it worse by boasting about it the next day.

      Its apples and oranges comparing it to an alleged incident involving the "pisser".

      Comment


        #48
        Originally posted by LimerickRugbyFan View Post
        They were found not guilty of rape(X) so therefore not rapists(Y) and did nothing wrong(Z).
        Z does not follow Y does not follow X.

        Comment


          #49
          Had they done nothing wrong the IRFU wouldn't have had any grounds to fire them.

          Yorn desh born, der ritt de gitt der gue,
          Orn desh, dee born desh, de umn bork! bork! bork!

          Comment


            #50
            Originally posted by Brenny View Post
            The consensus of the twitterati can decide a person's career.
            Brands only care about Twitter to the extent that they believe it represents the consensus of their customers.

            So it has less to do with the Twitterati, and more to do with the fact that in a professional sport damaging the perception of your sponsors can decide your career.

            Professional rugby is only sustainable as a sport to the extent that its reputation and brand can be leveraged to sell things to people.

            If you damage that capacity, you're out. It's a harsh reality, but we'd pretty much accept it in any other commercial field.

            This isn't about morality. It's about cash.
            "We will not walk in fear, one of another. We will not be driven into an age of unreason if we dig deep into our history and remember we are not descended from fearful men" Edward R Murrow

            "Little by little, we have been brought into the present condition in which we are able neither to tolerate the evils from which we suffer, nor the remedies we need to cure them." - Livy


            "I think that progress has been made by two flames that have always been burning in the human heart. The flame of anger against injustice and the flame of hope that you can build a better world" - Tony Benn

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              #51
              Nobody other than the people who were there know exactly what happened. The major issue with prosecuting rape is exactly that, its a he says, she says scenario. My point is that they were found not guilty of a crime, whatever it may be, and are suffering as a result. I don't think the IRFU should have fired them personally, and I think they did so as a result of public perception and the fact that rugby culture has such a bad name. The whats app messages didn't have any influence on their careers as rugby players however disgusting and abhorrent they were. PJ and Olding were out as members of the public, if anyone else, non sports person, were accused and subsequently cleared of rape and were still fired from their job, that wouldn't be right so why any different for sports people.

              The point about the "pisser" comes back to the rugby culture and all that is wrong with it, him and the academy player being knocked out. Jackson's incident happened on a night out and didn't relate in any way to Ulster Rugby. Leinster were out as a team celebrating and a guy acts the gob****e and pisses on a member of the public and an academy player gets knocked out, that sort of behaviour is what has rugby coloured in a bad light.

              Comment


                #52
                Be interesting what twist would be put on the urination story if it was a woman rather than a man was the alleged victim.
                "There are probably more annoying things than being hectored about African development by a wealthy Irish rock star in a cowboy hat, but I can't think of one at the moment"

                Paul Theroux

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                  #53
                  Originally posted by LimerickRugbyFan View Post
                  Nobody other than the people who were there know exactly what happened. The major issue with prosecuting rape is exactly that, its a he says, she says scenario. My point is that they were found not guilty of a crime, whatever it may be, and are suffering as a result. I don't think the IRFU should have fired them personally, and I think they did so as a result of public perception and the fact that rugby culture has such a bad name. The whats app messages didn't have any influence on their careers as rugby players however disgusting and abhorrent they were. PJ and Olding were out as members of the public, if anyone else, non sports person, were accused and subsequently cleared of rape and were still fired from their job, that wouldn't be right so why any different for sports people.

                  The point about the "pisser" comes back to the rugby culture and all that is wrong with it, him and the academy player being knocked out. Jackson's incident happened on a night out and didn't relate in any way to Ulster Rugby. Leinster were out as a team celebrating and a guy acts the gob****e and pisses on a member of the public and an academy player gets knocked out, that sort of behaviour is what has rugby coloured in a bad light.
                  They aren't "suffering" over being found not guilty of rape etc. though.

                  They are however suffering as a consequence of termination of contract. None of us has any idea what exactly is in an IRFU contract, but not bringing the game or their employers name into disrepute must be part of it surely? They are public figures, and a high standard of behavior is required from them.

                  If they thought the contract termination was illegal they'd have taken action don't you think?
                  Yorn desh born, der ritt de gitt der gue,
                  Orn desh, dee born desh, de umn bork! bork! bork!

                  Comment


                    #54
                    Originally posted by LimerickRugbyFan View Post
                    Nobody other than the people who were there know exactly what happened. The major issue with prosecuting rape is exactly that, its a he says, she says scenario. My point is that they were found not guilty of a crime, whatever it may be, and are suffering as a result. I don't think the IRFU should have fired them personally, and I think they did so as a result of public perception and the fact that rugby culture has such a bad name. The whats app messages didn't have any influence on their careers as rugby players however disgusting and abhorrent they were. PJ and Olding were out as members of the public, if anyone else, non sports person, were accused and subsequently cleared of rape and were still fired from their job, that wouldn't be right so why any different for sports people.

                    The point about the "pisser" comes back to the rugby culture and all that is wrong with it, him and the academy player being knocked out. Jackson's incident happened on a night out and didn't relate in any way to Ulster Rugby. Leinster were out as a team celebrating and a guy acts the gob****e and pisses on a member of the public and an academy player gets knocked out, that sort of behaviour is what has rugby coloured in a bad light.

                    Your not really getting it. They weren’t fired because they were found innocent of a crime.

                    Comment


                      #55
                      Folks, I've hidden a few posts temporarily. I'll sort this thread out in a bit but want to get the dinner ate before it goes cold. Thread will be locked until then.

                      EDIT
                      Ok, re-opening the thread now. I have edited/removed several posts referring to the Leinster player who urinated on a member of the public. The reason for this is that up to now, this person has to my knowledge not been formally identified by e.g. Leinster Rugby, the IRFU or any official media outlet such as a newspaper, 42.ie, Six-One News or whatever. This means that even though I know, most of you know, most of feckin Ireland knows who it is, this site is not in a position to publicly name him as the person responsible.

                      It's one thing to tell your mates about it in a private communication e.g. by PM, on Whatsapp, by text or just in conversation. This site is not responsible for any of that. However, the open forum here clearly does not fall under the category of private communication. There is no way of knowing whether this incident may yet be the subject of court action or potentially even criminal proceedings, because it absolutely could be classified as assault. Enabling the public identification of the individual concerned could create unnecessary and avoidable difficulties for this site, and frankly nobody involved in running it wants the annoyance, hassle or potential costs of defending any legal action brought by anyone connected to the incident, such as the individual concerned, the IRFU, Leinster Rugby or even the Gardaí. However unlikely any of ye think such an outcome to be, it's not yourselves you're putting in the firing line by identifying the person concerned and it's not acceptable to put us in the firing line.

                      So. Please work with us here. I've asked before in the other thread, I've even given a warning in that thread, but I'm giving the benefit of the doubt that some people may not have seen that so I'm repeating it here. Unless and until you can first post a link to a media outlet of record identifying him, don't post anything on this public forum that names or otherwise identifies the Leinster player who pissed on a member of the public during a recent night out. If this problem persists, threads will be locked and any posters failing to comply will be banned.
                      Tis but a scratch.

                      Comment


                        #56
                        Spot on Mr Chips. Seanie has been named in the good old Indo though:

                        “Irish international O'Brien (32) is currently the subject of an Irish Rugby Football Union (IRFU) investigation after an allegation was made that he urinated on another man in a Dublin pub last month.”

                        https://m.independent.ie/sport/rugby...-38202035.html
                        "There are a lot of points that we’ve left behind and this is with a young group. That probably tells you what they’re capable of and that they’re a very good side.

                        Probably next year or the year after next they will take some stopping"

                        Anthony Foley, May 2016. Axel RIP

                        Comment


                          #57
                          Thanks very much WL. Knock yerselves out so (with the caveat that this is still "alleged").
                          Tis but a scratch.

                          Comment


                            #58


                            For the record, I hate including a link to that rag but it was needed in this case!
                            "There are a lot of points that we’ve left behind and this is with a young group. That probably tells you what they’re capable of and that they’re a very good side.

                            Probably next year or the year after next they will take some stopping"

                            Anthony Foley, May 2016. Axel RIP

                            Comment


                              #59
                              Originally posted by Waterfordlad View Post


                              For the record, I hate including a link to that rag but it was needed in this case!
                              It’s hardly a surprise that they were the first to name him.

                              Comment


                                #60
                                Originally posted by Brenny View Post

                                What exactly do you mean by 'party to those messages on WhatsApp?' What exactly did he say on WhatsApp and what is he supposed to have done that brings the game into disrepute?
                                Benny you know as well as I do that he didn't actually say anything offensive on those WhatsApp messages. The worst stuff was said by a failed academy player who was also on trial and by a guy was still plays for Ulster.

                                Don't let the truth get in the way of a good witch hunt.

                                Commemorate Nevin Spence here -
                                http://www.mycharity.ie/event/munste..._nevin_spence/

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