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The Future of the Heineken Cup In Doubt?

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    Originally posted by Viigand View Post
    Why would the think moving it from Dublin is a good idea, the corporate tax rate there is substantially lower than France.
    The French seem to think there's a conspiracy to mollycoddle Pro12 teams and the ERC based in Dubin is part and parcel of it. It comes up in the French press every time there's a citing of a french based player
    Munster – Champions of Europe 2006, 2008, 2020.

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      It's all about Chairmen wanting to be able to hold money into a small elite of clubs, as far as I can see. Easing the unions out of the frame, and with them any intent to distribute the revenue.

      20 clubs? So 4 x 5 and straight into semis? The 7th/8th play off thing can't work across three leagues - it would create a tournament of 21 clubs.
      "We will not walk in fear, one of another. We will not be driven into an age of unreason if we dig deep into our history and remember we are not descended from fearful men" Edward R Murrow

      "Little by little, we have been brought into the present condition in which we are able neither to tolerate the evils from which we suffer, nor the remedies we need to cure them." - Livy


      "I think that progress has been made by two flames that have always been burning in the human heart. The flame of anger against injustice and the flame of hope that you can build a better world" - Tony Benn

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        The ambient temperature in Paris is 2.5 degrees warmer than Dublin so the warm balls will need to be warmer for Serge.
        The Beatings Will Continue Until Morale Improves

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          Originally posted by Balla Boy View Post
          So 4 x 5 and straight into semis? The 7th/8th play off thing can't work across three leagues - it would create a tournament of 21 clubs.
          Anglo French playoff presumably.
          Munster – Champions of Europe 2006, 2008, 2020.

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            The only way I can see the 7/8th place play-offs working is a two pool (of three teams) play-off. Neutral venue or home/away basis. I can't see any right minded team looking for additional games in June.
            The Beatings Will Continue Until Morale Improves

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              Originally posted by rathbaner View Post
              Anglo French playoff presumably.
              Two more matches at the end of a long season. I guess if they run them alongside the play offs it might not create a pile up.

              I really can't see the attraction of the structure they're proposing, to be honest. You either lose the quarter finals, or you play 8 games over the season to eliminate the bottom team in each group.

              Am I missing something?
              "We will not walk in fear, one of another. We will not be driven into an age of unreason if we dig deep into our history and remember we are not descended from fearful men" Edward R Murrow

              "Little by little, we have been brought into the present condition in which we are able neither to tolerate the evils from which we suffer, nor the remedies we need to cure them." - Livy


              "I think that progress has been made by two flames that have always been burning in the human heart. The flame of anger against injustice and the flame of hope that you can build a better world" - Tony Benn

              Comment


                Originally posted by The Word Is Born View Post
                What I can't fathom is the extra play-off games for the 7/8th teams of each league, how is that going to work? It's going to add another 2-3 weeks onto the season and can only be arranged once the French finish the Top14.
                One way of reading Grauniad report is that the HEC and ACC winners would no longer provide an automatic HEC place for their country (so Leinster got Connacht a HEC place and Toulon got Perpignan a HEC place) but instead, the HEC and ACC winners give the 7th and 8th team in their leagues a playoff for a HEC place.

                So Leinster winning ACC would mean a playoff between Connacht and Treviso for a HEC place and Toulon winning HEC would mean a playoff between Perpignan and Bayonne for a HEC place.

                Edit: this assumes the top 6 Pro12 qualifies for the HEC. If there are guaranteed places for each country then Treviso would qualify anyway, so the play-off would be between the top 2 non-qualifying teams.
                Last edited by mikerob; 20th-May-2013, 21:26.

                Comment


                  The whole thing is a farce.

                  I try not to swear too much these days, but the Premiership clubs are being a bunch of c**ts.

                  A great tournament could be ruined by greed.
                  Please support Milford Hospice. Click here to donate.

                  Comment


                    Personally I don't have a major issue with a reduction in HEC size and tougher qualification from the Pro12 should improve the league.

                    However I think the English teams fecked up with BT... they may have promised BT European rugby rights and their deal with BT will be in jeopardy if they can't deliver.

                    Comment


                      Right - brain fart earlier. 16 teams isn't a QF, it's a round of 16.

                      So 4 groups of 5, then QF/SF/Final. That, in theory, makes for a more competitive competition (no Italians, for instance) but more importantly gives every qualifying team an extra home game even if they're getting a battering in the group.

                      So more money for a smaller number of teams, I'd guess.
                      "We will not walk in fear, one of another. We will not be driven into an age of unreason if we dig deep into our history and remember we are not descended from fearful men" Edward R Murrow

                      "Little by little, we have been brought into the present condition in which we are able neither to tolerate the evils from which we suffer, nor the remedies we need to cure them." - Livy


                      "I think that progress has been made by two flames that have always been burning in the human heart. The flame of anger against injustice and the flame of hope that you can build a better world" - Tony Benn

                      Comment


                        It's 5 groups of 4. The Top14 clubs have no interest in more games. They want fewer so they can finish their season a bit earlier. Failing that, the QFs will be moved to a weekend before the 6N.

                        It's a farce anyway. Top14 and Premiership clubs have made no concessions or compromises. Just pretended to be open to negotiation while insisting on their demands. It's now an Anglo French (mostly SH) tournament, with some token Celtalians thrown in.

                        Comment


                          Originally posted by HenryFitz View Post
                          It's 5 groups of 4. The Top14 clubs have no interest in more games. They want fewer so they can finish their season a bit earlier. Failing that, the QFs will be moved to a weekend before the 6N.

                          It's a farce anyway. Top14 and Premiership clubs have made no concessions or compromises. Just pretended to be open to negotiation while insisting on their demands. It's now an Anglo French (mostly SH) tournament, with some token Celtalians thrown in.
                          How do you get 8 quarter finalists out of 5 groups? That would be insane.

                          What is really galling me is I'm sure that bell end from Sarries is knee deep in this.
                          Please support Milford Hospice. Click here to donate.

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                            Originally posted by fitzy73 View Post
                            How do you get 8 quarter finalists out of 5 groups? That would be insane.

                            What is really galling me is I'm sure that bell end from Sarries is knee deep in this.
                            It's similar to now. 5 winners, plus 3 best runners-up.

                            Comment


                              Originally posted by The Word Is Born View Post
                              Apparently there was an agreement in principle between English/French/Rabo teams for the HEC going forward from 2014-15. HEC goes from 24 teams to 20 (the top 6 from each league with a play-off system for the 7/8th of each league). The Amlin gets expanded with the 4 from the HEC dropping down. Also the winners of the HEC/Amlin do not get automatic qualification. There will also be a third tier competition involving teams for 6N B group. All of the above is still contingent on the English clubs turfing out Murdoch and going with BTVision.

                              Linkage

                              Seems to depend upon what papers you read or who is feeding the story to their tame journo.

                              http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/r...e-8622413.html

                              Comment


                                I like the idea of the best teams only playing in the heinken cup ,20 teams sounds good ,but how does the 7/8 teams work?.as for citing there should be one citing commission for nh teams.but the way froggie and tans are going about it sucks,they'll brake up a great tournament that munster build
                                employ your time in improving yourself by other men's writings,so that you shall gain easily what others have labored hard for. "socrates"
                                beware the barrenness of a busy life, "socrates "
                                who are you to judge the life i live? I know i'm not perfect-and i don't live to be-but before you start pointing fingers...make sure you hands are clean." BOB MARLEY
                                we are what we repeatedly do.excellance,then,is not an act,but a habit ''aristotle''

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