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The Future of the Heineken Cup In Doubt?

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    Originally posted by sewa View Post
    Yeah, we prefer to save cash for the big games abroad in the latter stages of the HEC. Fans of most other sides don't have that additional financial concern
    Certainly not Wasps, sorry bugs.

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      When Munster has worse domestic attendances than Leinster, Leicester, Gloucester, Harlequins, Northampton, Bordeaux-Begles, Toulon, Toulouse, Clermont, Stade Francais, Bayonne and Grenoble it sort of puts a lie to the myth that Munster have the "most dedicated fans in Europe".

      Also many of these clubs consistently get to the later stages of the European competitions.

      Comment


        Originally posted by Munsterboy View Post
        I agree with most of your post but I think there are a huge number of potential supporters in Wales - people who love the game and have a strong attachment to the grass roots - who currently don't attend because the so-called regions don't represent them. If you weren't a Cardiff, Llanelli, Newport, Swansea or Neath supporter before the regions were created, you don't have a professional team to support.

        Shame the unions weren't unified to call their bluff and let them and the English go play with themselves.

        RRW would have gone to the wall and the WRU could have set up new regions to replace them. Would have been a painful couple of years but I think we could have gotten through it and Celtic rugby would have been better off in the long run. The AP clubs would have eventually come back to the table with a more compromising attitude.
        The WRU didn't have a choice when the game went professional. They effectively bankrupted themselves building the Millennium Stadium and staging the 1999 World Cup. As such the WRU couldn't afford to centrally contract their players and set up their own teams and had to rely on the big Welsh clubs running the domestic game instead.

        Cardiff and Llanelli secured "stand alone" status because they were richer and more powerful than the WRU and threatened ruinous legal action against them.

        Comment


          Originally posted by Doodle Bug View Post
          When Munster has worse domestic attendances than Leinster, Leicester, Gloucester, Harlequins, Northampton, Bordeaux-Begles, Toulon, Toulouse, Clermont, Stade Francais, Bayonne and Grenoble it sort of puts a lie to the myth that Munster have the "most dedicated fans in Europe".

          Also many of these clubs consistently get to the later stages of the European competitions.
          Its a shocking state of affairs really, thanks for highlighting it. Quite a valuable contribution
          My computer thinks I'm gay
          What's the difference anyway
          When all the people do all day
          Is stare into a phone

          Comment


            Originally posted by Paddytheman View Post
            I know what you're saying but getting to Marseilles nearly broke the bank; how the f**k do I explain to my wife that I'm off to Hong Kong for a fortnight to watch Munster?
            What makes you think you could even get a ticket?
            Munster – Champions of Europe 2006, 2008, 2021.

            Comment


              Originally posted by sewa View Post
              Its a shocking state of affairs really, thanks for highlighting it. Quite a valuable contribution
              Waspishly sharp I would say.

              Comment


                Originally posted by sewa View Post
                Its a shocking state of affairs really, thanks for highlighting it. Quite a valuable contribution
                Have a read of the "Where have all the fans gone" thread. Very interesting. This season it looks like Ulster might beat Munster's average attendance figures too.

                Lots for Munster as a province to chew on.

                Here is a detailed analysis on the differences in average attendances between teams' domestic league matches and the Europe Cup pool matches from the Harlequins message board.

                http://www.rugbynetwork.net/boards/r...m?100,14497894

                Comment


                  No ta mate, I am sure your link is very interesting and all but I am a bit busy trying to have a nice rest at work before I go for pints
                  My computer thinks I'm gay
                  What's the difference anyway
                  When all the people do all day
                  Is stare into a phone

                  Comment


                    Originally posted by sewa View Post
                    No ta mate, I am sure your link is very interesting and all but I am a bit busy trying to have a nice rest at work before I go for pints
                    You might learn something before you indulge in another anti-English and anti-French rant. Many English and French clubs have much better records of attracting customers week in and week out throughout the season than Munster do. Leinster and Ulster do pretty well in that regard too.

                    Comment


                      Can you please bump one of my anti-french and anti-english rants dozybug because I think you have me confused with someone else, more specifically you have confused me with someone who gives a ****
                      My computer thinks I'm gay
                      What's the difference anyway
                      When all the people do all day
                      Is stare into a phone

                      Comment


                        Originally posted by Doodle Bug View Post
                        You might learn something before you indulge in another anti-English and anti-French rant. Many English and French clubs have much better records of attracting customers week in and week out throughout the season than Munster do. Leinster and Ulster do pretty well in that regard too.

                        Back in the amateur days Munster played matches against the other Irish provinces which also served as international trials and games against touring sides. Week in, week out rugby was provided by the constituent clubs within Munster who played in two competitions the Munster Senior League and the Munster Senior Cup. The MSC was the competition that drew the crowds because we are into cup rugby and it has been like that for a long, long time.

                        Comment


                          Originally posted by sewa View Post
                          Can you please bump one of my anti-french and anti-english rants dozybug because I think you have me confused with someone else, more specifically you have confused me with someone who gives a ****
                          You are supposed to be nice and welcoming to our guests, even those who come here to stir it.

                          Comment


                            Originally posted by glorob View Post
                            You are supposed to be nice and welcoming to our guests, even those who come here to stir it.
                            I thought I was being nice :)
                            My computer thinks I'm gay
                            What's the difference anyway
                            When all the people do all day
                            Is stare into a phone

                            Comment


                              Doodle Bug is that Scarlets fella, the Turk or whatever his name was.

                              Anyway Doodle Turk, it was my post you were referencing, not Sewa, as much as I like to see people have a go at that old hound, but also you should note I'm a Leinster fan, not Munster, so attacking Munster attendances isn't really getting to the heart of what my point was, i.e. The Welsh regional game is unsustainable through arrogance and biting off their nose to spite their face (to sum it up in a sentence).

                              Regarding attendances, the highest attended Welsh game of the entire season (outside of Super Dooper Sunday) is on a par with the lowest attendance of the entire season at Thomond Park. I didn't check your figures / links, but from memory Munsters average attendance is ballpark 16,000 (dragged down a fair bit by Musgrave), and Leinsters average attendance is usually in and around the 20,000 mark (dragged up a fair bit by the head-to-head with Munster at Lansdowne). There's no question that Munsters attendances have slipped in the league somewhat, but in terms of sustainability, their lowest league attendance in Limerick (i.e. their worst day) is the equivalent to the highest WELSH attendance in the league (i.e. their best day), there's no comparrison.

                              Every team in every sport has bandwagon fans, that's a fact of the sport, but to compare what games MUNSTER fans pick and choose to go too versus what Welsh RUGBY fans pick and choose to go to is sort of missing the point. Munster fans still go to Munster games, Ospreys, Scarlets, Cardiff and Dragons fans only go to Welsh games. That's why your regions are failing and that's why there's an exodus of players abroad and that's why your system is a liability to Pro12 rugby. The fact that the Welsh thought they could exist in the AP when time and time again this "English opposition will bring in the fans" myth has been proven to be false, and Dragons can only sit above Italian teams in the table, Cardiff do one better, managing to get ahead of Connacht, our development province and Scarlets going one better again, getting ahead of Edinburgh...

                              If three Welsh teams can only get ahead of the likes of Treviso, Zebre, Connacht and Edinburgh but think they'd have a hope in hell in the AP, it just goes to show how delusional RRW is. At the top end of the Pro12, the teams are every bit as good as anything the AP can produce, but at the bottom end of the Pro12, the teams are for the most part jokes and would be slaughtered in the AP.

                              Comment


                                Originally posted by Doodle Bug View Post
                                Have a read of the "Where have all the fans gone" thread. Very interesting. This season it looks like Ulster might beat Munster's average attendance figures too.

                                Lots for Munster as a province to chew on.

                                Here is a detailed analysis on the differences in average attendances between teams' domestic league matches and the Europe Cup pool matches from the Harlequins message board.

                                http://www.rugbynetwork.net/boards/r...m?100,14497894
                                It's not that detailed, is it? It ignores the fact that a third of our home games are played in a ground with a capacity of 8,300.
                                "We will not walk in fear, one of another. We will not be driven into an age of unreason if we dig deep into our history and remember we are not descended from fearful men" Edward R Murrow

                                "Little by little, we have been brought into the present condition in which we are able neither to tolerate the evils from which we suffer, nor the remedies we need to cure them." - Livy


                                "I think that progress has been made by two flames that have always been burning in the human heart. The flame of anger against injustice and the flame of hope that you can build a better world" - Tony Benn

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