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The Future of the Heineken Cup In Doubt?

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    Originally posted by Pixie View Post
    Twickenham was a disgrace..Cardiff willl have more Munster supporters than either sarries or Toulon.Munster made the Heineken cup the success it has been.So very sad we didn't get through.
    Horrible feeling sarries will get it.they don't deserve to in my opinion,Ulster played with 14 men and Clermont didn't turn up.
    Not me it won't. I would rather tear up my ticket, than go to watch Saracens in any match. I for one will be roaring for Toulon!
    The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man - George Bernard Shaw


    Comment


      Originally posted by Jackie Brown View Post
      Independent clubs? Lol, I assume the RRW stance with the begging bowl to the WRU excludes them from this independent group.

      Not that it matters, the RRW and rugby in Wales is dead.
      Though I'm not Welsh, and therefore may be missing something, how are RRW dead? They're a signatory to RCC, which means they're guaranteed to be Wales' representative sides going forwards for the length of the agreement. That ensures their existence.

      Comment


        If RRW didn't have union backing, the receivers would be in in the morning. Their club game is not only pathetic, but collapsing. Ospreys are the only team who can borderline be taken seriously, but are nowhere near the power they once were - and even then they didn't do anything impressive in Europe and managed to pilfer a couple of leagues in the play-offs while the rest of us were playing at the tail end in Europe - but it's worth noting that a Welsh team hasn't topped the league table for the guts of 10 years now.

        The Welsh have a sense of entitlement or eliteness because of their national team. To be fair, they have had the best coach and a stable set-up at national level for quite a while whereas Ireland have gone through some pretty unspectacular coaches at international level. This season was the first time we've had a decent coach in a long time and it showed. I think we'll be a force at international level for the next 5+ years and hopefully catch up on the 6 nations titles, but the Welsh game is dying a slow death - which I don't celebrate btw, strong Welsh regions are crucial to the success of the Pro12 and to a lesser extent the European Willy Waving Cup, but it just makes me laugh at how the Welsh fans want out of the Pro12, as if they're too good for it when they bring virtually nothing to it and make every excuse under the sun as to why their impressive stadiums would be worth the entry fee alone to have some space with peace and quiet to work on some college assignments.

        The bottom line is they're day trippers, event junkies, or as we would call them over here, bandwagoners - no interest in the grass roots, the bread and butter, just head off to the millenium when the fan boys are playing - all four of the Welsh regions played in a super dooper day out at the Millenium and only half the amount showed up as did for a Leinster v Munster game that could have sold another 10,000 tickets if we didn't design the stadium like a bed pan.

        On a good day Welsh teams would be doing well to break the 8,000 mark in the Pro12, on a pissing rain, thunderstorm evening in Ireland you still wouldn't get less than 10,000 at any of the big three Irish provinces games...

        The Welsh blamed kick off times, so they were changed to lunch time games for all the Welsh... didn't change a damn thing. Then they harp on about how they'd prefer to play the English, and then 8,000 people pack into the 26,000 stadium in Swansea to see Northampton in the European Cup, 7,500 Scarlets fans braved sleeping in tents on the streets to make sure they got a seat at the 15,000 capacity Parc Y Scarlets to see Quinns in the European Cup... they're living in fantasy land and have undermined the Celtic League / Pro12 on several occasions, including being temporarily expelled from the league in the past, and then jumping into bed with the English like their little obedient lap dog this time around, completely showing contempt to their Celtic colleagues who sustain a bread and butter league for them, they fall for the old English divide and conquer and give all the leverage to Premiership rugby and then when the English got what they wanted, what did they do? Wiped their mickey on the Welsh boys nighty, said thanks very much, left a fiver on the bedside table and fu*ked off home to the misses.

        Actually, fu*k it, let them burn.

        Comment


          Originally posted by Leo View Post
          The bottom line is they're day trippers, event junkies, or as we would call them over here, bandwagoners - no interest in the grass roots, the bread and butter, just head off to the millenium when the fan boys are playing - all four of the Welsh regions played in a super dooper day out at the Millenium and only half the amount showed up as did for a Leinster v Munster game that could have sold another 10,000 tickets if we didn't design the stadium like a bed pan.

          On a good day Welsh teams would be doing well to break the 8,000 mark in the Pro12, on a pissing rain, thunderstorm evening in Ireland you still wouldn't get less than 10,000 at any of the big three Irish provinces games...
          Not to stand up for them, but there are plenty of games in Munster and Leinster that don't break the 8,000 mark (season tickets are counted regardless of attendance) and 50,000 was probably more or less perfect for the derby at the bedpan, but otherwise you're right.

          Comment


            Alas poor Turkboy is no more, we will miss his quick wit and charm
            My computer thinks I'm gay
            What's the difference anyway
            When all the people do all day
            Is stare into a phone

            Comment


              Possible changes to the Super # rugby competition on the other side of the world...

              http://www.smh.com.au/rugby-union/un...=1398837246989

              whether you like it or not... they always think big, those boys....
              He was as lame as a duck. Not the metaphorical lame duck either, but a real duck that was actually lame. Maybe from stepping on a land mine or something.

              Comment


                Originally posted by Leo View Post
                The bottom line is they're day trippers, event junkies, or as we would call them over here, bandwagoners - no interest in the grass roots, the bread and butter, just head off to the millenium when the fan boys are playing.
                I agree with most of your post but I think there are a huge number of potential supporters in Wales - people who love the game and have a strong attachment to the grass roots - who currently don't attend because the so-called regions don't represent them. If you weren't a Cardiff, Llanelli, Newport, Swansea or Neath supporter before the regions were created, you don't have a professional team to support.

                Shame the unions weren't unified to call their bluff and let them and the English go play with themselves.

                RRW would have gone to the wall and the WRU could have set up new regions to replace them. Would have been a painful couple of years but I think we could have gotten through it and Celtic rugby would have been better off in the long run. The AP clubs would have eventually come back to the table with a more compromising attitude.

                Comment


                  Originally posted by Munsterboy View Post

                  Shame the unions weren't unified to call their bluff and let them and the English go play with themselves.

                  RRW would have gone to the wall and the WRU could have set up new regions to replace them. Would have been a painful couple of years but I think we could have gotten through it and Celtic rugby would have been better off in the long run. The AP clubs would have eventually come back to the table with a more compromising attitude.
                  Yes, we have the Scottish to thank for that,

                  Comment


                    Originally posted by Piquet View Post
                    Yes, we have the Scottish to thank for that,
                    It's over. Time to move on and plan for the next big assault in six years time. We will always suffer as a result of having two massively powerful neighbours. That's the geoolitical and sporting reality of our country. Ask Wolfe Tone!!

                    I just hope the IRFU have the brains trust looking at strengthening their hand. New Zealand and Ireland have a similar problem in being small countries unable to build a local league that can command mega-money, but they have a brand that extends well beyond their borders and a quality "product".

                    I think something like an annual tournament between Kiwi and Irish clubs/provinces that would be held somehwere like Dubai, Hong Kong, Japan or the USA. Two top provinces v two top Kiwi clubs played Round robin with a final over two weeks and sell it to Al Jazeera or Sky.
                    Munster – Champions of Europe 2006, 2008, 2021.

                    Comment


                      Originally posted by rathbaner View Post
                      It's over. Time to move on and plan for the next big assault in six years time. We will always suffer as a result of having two massively powerful neighbours. That's the geoolitical and sporting reality of our country. Ask Wolfe Tone!!

                      I just hope the IRFU have the brains trust looking at strengthening their hand. New Zealand and Ireland have a similar problem in being small countries unable to build a local league that can command mega-money, but they have a brand that extends well beyond their borders and a quality "product".

                      I think something like an annual tournament between Kiwi and Irish clubs/provinces that would be held somehwere like Dubai, Hong Kong, Japan or the USA. Two top provinces v two top Kiwi clubs played Round robin with a final over two weeks and sell it to Al Jazeera or Sky.
                      I know what you're saying but getting to Marseilles nearly broke the bank; how the f**k do I explain to my wife that I'm off to Hong Kong for a fortnight to watch Munster?

                      Comment


                        http://www.planetrugby.com/story/0,2...290041,00.html

                        Thank fook for that. I was worried the French Clubs would be stuck for money.

                        Comment


                          One other interesting thing Brian Moore had a commercial expert as guest on a show of his, who believes that the revenue from sponsorship will reduce initially by moving from Heineken to 4-6 sponsors . He believed that they will pay considerably less than Heineken have been paying for sole sponsorship rights.
                          If revenue for the new tournament is to be greater than the old HC then the TV deals will need to be significantly greater . Have there been any details of how much the shared BT / SKY deal is worth or what the new French european TV deal is worth ?

                          Comment


                            Originally posted by outside inside View Post
                            One other interesting thing Brian Moore had a commercial expert as guest on a show of his, who believes that the revenue from sponsorship will reduce initially by moving from Heineken to 4-6 sponsors . He believed that they will pay considerably less than Heineken have been paying for sole sponsorship rights.
                            If revenue for the new tournament is to be greater than the old HC then the TV deals will need to be significantly greater . Have there been any details of how much the shared BT / SKY deal is worth or what the new French european TV deal is worth ?
                            PRL made all sorts of claims about how much more money they'd bring if they were just allowed more say in the commercial side but there's no reason to think they can back that up in the short term. The ERC were not the amateurs that McCafferty always made out. They built a very successful tournament.

                            In a few years, when the current broadcast deals are up, the new company will play Sky and BT off one another and get significantly more for the rights. This will no doubt be hailed as a great success, conveniently ignoring the fact that, had it not been for PRL's secret side deal with BT, ERC could have done that last year.

                            Comment


                              Originally posted by Leo View Post
                              If RRW didn't have union backing, the receivers would be in in the morning. Their club game is not only pathetic, but collapsing. Ospreys are the only team who can borderline be taken seriously, but are nowhere near the power they once were - and even then they didn't do anything impressive in Europe and managed to pilfer a couple of leagues in the play-offs while the rest of us were playing at the tail end in Europe - but it's worth noting that a Welsh team hasn't topped the league table for the guts of 10 years now.

                              The Welsh have a sense of entitlement or eliteness because of their national team. To be fair, they have had the best coach and a stable set-up at national level for quite a while whereas Ireland have gone through some pretty unspectacular coaches at international level. This season was the first time we've had a decent coach in a long time and it showed. I think we'll be a force at international level for the next 5+ years and hopefully catch up on the 6 nations titles, but the Welsh game is dying a slow death - which I don't celebrate btw, strong Welsh regions are crucial to the success of the Pro12 and to a lesser extent the European Willy Waving Cup, but it just makes me laugh at how the Welsh fans want out of the Pro12, as if they're too good for it when they bring virtually nothing to it and make every excuse under the sun as to why their impressive stadiums would be worth the entry fee alone to have some space with peace and quiet to work on some college assignments.

                              The bottom line is they're day trippers, event junkies, or as we would call them over here, bandwagoners - no interest in the grass roots, the bread and butter, just head off to the millenium when the fan boys are playing - all four of the Welsh regions played in a super dooper day out at the Millenium and only half the amount showed up as did for a Leinster v Munster game that could have sold another 10,000 tickets if we didn't design the stadium like a bed pan.

                              On a good day Welsh teams would be doing well to break the 8,000 mark in the Pro12, on a pissing rain, thunderstorm evening in Ireland you still wouldn't get less than 10,000 at any of the big three Irish provinces games...

                              The Welsh blamed kick off times, so they were changed to lunch time games for all the Welsh... didn't change a damn thing. Then they harp on about how they'd prefer to play the English, and then 8,000 people pack into the 26,000 stadium in Swansea to see Northampton in the European Cup, 7,500 Scarlets fans braved sleeping in tents on the streets to make sure they got a seat at the 15,000 capacity Parc Y Scarlets to see Quinns in the European Cup... they're living in fantasy land and have undermined the Celtic League / Pro12 on several occasions, including being temporarily expelled from the league in the past, and then jumping into bed with the English like their little obedient lap dog this time around, completely showing contempt to their Celtic colleagues who sustain a bread and butter league for them, they fall for the old English divide and conquer and give all the leverage to Premiership rugby and then when the English got what they wanted, what did they do? Wiped their mickey on the Welsh boys nighty, said thanks very much, left a fiver on the bedside table and fu*ked off home to the misses.

                              Actually, fu*k it, let them burn.
                              Sorry but Munster supporters are some of the biggest fair weather "day trippers" around. I suggest you take a look at this thread dedicated to the subject.

                              http://www.munsterfans.com/threads/3...-the-fans-gone

                              How many people actually go and watch Munster play in the Pro12 at Musgrave Park? Even the Pro12 crowds at Thomond are pretty poor.

                              Munster have the biggest difference between European and domestic attendances in the whole of Europe.

                              Comment


                                Yeah, we prefer to save cash for the big games abroad in the latter stages of the HEC. Fans of most other sides don't have that additional financial concern
                                My computer thinks I'm gay
                                What's the difference anyway
                                When all the people do all day
                                Is stare into a phone

                                Comment

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