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The Future of the Heineken Cup In Doubt?

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    http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/24074931

    Interesting.
    clowns

    Comment


      Originally posted by The Outlaw View Post
      They have seven wins including the 2004 season. Since then they have 4 wins.

      You can't come up with even one coherent reason as to why they should be in a revamped HEC except that "they are Italian". And we must keep them competitive

      Its no wonder really the French and English want out.
      2003-4: 1
      2004-5: 3
      2007-8: 1
      2009-10: 1
      2011-12: 1
      2012-13: 1

      1+3+1+1+1+1= 8

      Up.
      Ceterum censeo INM irrumandum esse.

      Comment


        Originally posted by The Outlaw View Post
        They have been playing HEC rugby since 1995. And have made zero impact.

        They do not deserve a place in any revamped competition unless they qualify for it. We've beaten the English Champions and another who have a stellar history in the competition (serge created or otherwise) in 2 years.

        They have no right to a HEC place over any other unless they qualify for it. This lets give them a place for the sake of it is balderdash in my view.
        i wouldn't agree with that view of Treviso .. it took time for them to get up to HEC level, but in the past couple of season they've certainly had an impact on other teams qualifying for the knock-out rounds even if they didn't qualify themselves. They're no longer the whipping boys.

        remember the italian teams situation has evolved over the past few years. Before the italians decided to join the Celtic league their club league was at a much much lower standard than those of the celtic nations, england or france. When the FIR opted to enter 2 franchises in the celtic league they did it with a view to try to attract their international players back to playing in Italy with Italian clubs & to become more competitive in HEC. For Treviso that has very definitely happened & they're certainly not a team any other club would play with a pre-assumption of a win.

        Zebre are only in their second season of existance. there was a huge amount of churn about who/what the second team for the celtic league would be, there was talk of it being a team based in rome, but the organisation of that fell apart resulting in Viadana joining the league almost by default, they then couldn't keep afloat financially and thus Zebre came about.

        I'm sorry but bleating about non-impact of a club on the HEC when their current state has only existed for a couple of seasons is nonsense & just being deliberately obtuse.

        I'm not personally opposed to there being qualification on merit from the Rabo, but I do agree that each country should have at least 1 team representative until/unless one of the additional countries wins the Amlin & thus earns a place in HEC & which ever country whose teams are currently weakest on average should lost their slot in HEC & relegate to the Amlin level.
        Plato: \"One of the penalties for refusing to participate in politics is that you end up being governed by your inferiors.\"

        Comment


          Arguing that this is about qualification is really not the main issue...I for one would welcome more competitive Rabo, so some good may come of this Fiasco...The reason "Wee"Liar and McClapperty want a Club Run game is to control power and Money, and if they get their way they will screw the "weaker" clubs IMO. I doubt the BT deals holds water, they paid for European games as part of the package and PRL did not have the right to sell something outside their gift, hence all the bluffing.

          Comment


            Won't someone think of the children in all this?
            "Fineen Wycherley was everywhere. When I watched this video back late on Saturday night I half expected to look up from my laptop to find him in my kitchen ' TRK Nov 3rd 2019 following Cardiff v Munster

            Comment


              Originally posted by FORWARD.... View Post
              Won't someone think of the children in all this?
              Seriously. I'd be gutted if I never got the chance to bring my young lad to a Heineken Cup game in Thomond.

              Comment


                Originally posted by lahinch_lass View Post
                i wouldn't agree with that view of Treviso .. it took time for them to get up to HEC level, but in the past couple of season they've certainly had an impact on other teams qualifying for the knock-out rounds even if they didn't qualify themselves. They're no longer the whipping boys.

                remember the italian teams situation has evolved over the past few years. Before the italians decided to join the Celtic league their club league was at a much much lower standard than those of the celtic nations, england or france. When the FIR opted to enter 2 franchises in the celtic league they did it with a view to try to attract their international players back to playing in Italy with Italian clubs & to become more competitive in HEC. For Treviso that has very definitely happened & they're certainly not a team any other club would play with a pre-assumption of a win.

                Zebre are only in their second season of existance. there was a huge amount of churn about who/what the second team for the celtic league would be, there was talk of it being a team based in rome, but the organisation of that fell apart resulting in Viadana joining the league almost by default, they then couldn't keep afloat financially and thus Zebre came about.

                I'm sorry but bleating about non-impact of a club on the HEC when their current state has only existed for a couple of seasons is nonsense & just being deliberately obtuse.

                I'm not personally opposed to there being qualification on merit from the Rabo, but I do agree that each country should have at least 1 team representative until/unless one of the additional countries wins the Amlin & thus earns a place in HEC & which ever country whose teams are currently weakest on average should lost their slot in HEC & relegate to the Amlin level.
                In other words even if they finish bottom of the Rabo they are entitled to a HEC position?

                As I said no wonder the English and French want out.

                We have a better current record then Treviso in the HEC ( note the emphasis on current) Why should they be ahead of us in the qualification.

                May I also add that while you may regard my view as obtuse. I'd regard yours as hilarious. But thats' what forums are for.
                I always knew Madigan was a closet Scrum Half. Ignore All things that suggest Continuity.

                Comment


                  Originally posted by The Outlaw View Post
                  In other words even if they finish bottom of the Rabo they are entitled to a HEC position?

                  As I said no wonder the English and French want out.

                  We have a better current record then Treviso in the HEC ( note the emphasis on current) Why should they be ahead of us in the qualification.

                  May I also add that while you may regard my view as obtuse. I'd regard yours as hilarious. But thats' what forums are for.
                  Because they finished ahead of you in the qualifying league...?
                  Ceterum censeo INM irrumandum esse.

                  Comment


                    Originally posted by Thomond78 View Post
                    Because they finished ahead of you in the qualifying league...?
                    They qualified for the Heineken Cup because they have two guaranteed places regardless of where they finish.


                    http://www.ercrugby.com/eng/heineken...on_process.php

                    To be in the Top 2 in Italy where there are two teams. Tough gig in anyone's language
                    I always knew Madigan was a closet Scrum Half. Ignore All things that suggest Continuity.

                    Comment


                      Personally I think European qualification should be based on number of related posts on MF.com ...that leaves Treviso ahead of Connacht and Ulster this season.
                      "Hell, I'm not saying I'm an angel, but when it came to dirty tricks I couldn't hold a candle to the Irish Mafia" Jimmy Hoffa

                      Comment


                        RFU CEO speaks at the end of this:

                        RFU chief executive Ian Ritchie has moved quickly to clarify his organisation's stance.

                        He said: "In what are complex and passionate on-going negotiations concerning the future of the European competitions, the RFU is encouraging talks to continue in earnest. [The phrase used in the ERC statement, note - T78]

                        "We are, and always have been, supportive of the Premiership clubs seeking greater meritocracy across the competitions and appropriate financial distribution. It is also important to ensure that rugby across Europe continues to thrive and grow. In terms of authorising any future competition, it is critical to see all the confirmed details before being able to assess its merits.

                        "In order to find a successful conclusion, we are urging discussions to be held with an open mind, with a view to compromise on both sides. We will continue to work with urgency behind closed doors to ensure a consensus is reached that will benefit all parties."
                        [Emphases added]

                        http://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/r...er-rfu-5960181 (and Simon Thomas has been very, very good this week).

                        In other words: get back talking, boys. And do it behind closed doors, not in the press. You're not getting authorisation on your made-up plans.

                        And ESPN report this as: RFU pledge support to English clubs.
                        Ceterum censeo INM irrumandum esse.

                        Comment


                          And now Brett Gosper, IRB CEO. Echoing the RFU, and the ERC.

                          http://www.espn.co.uk/heineken-cup-2...ry/198265.html

                          "The Heineken Cup is a great competition and it forms the base of the game in many ways for some of the unions that participate in it," Gosper told ESPN. "It is a true European competition so obviously we would like to see the maintenance of that competition."

                          Gosper insists the IRB will not interfere in the debate but is wary of losing a tournament that has thrilled fans for the last 18 years. "It's not for us to make a call on the exact make-up of their competitions and money splits and the rest of it but we certainly hope that they resolve the negotiations going on in that area.

                          "But a European Cup competition, like the Heineken Cup, is a terrific contributor to the game. We are relatively young professional sport suffering growing pains and we've got to work our way through them. Certainly, a European-wide competition like that is in the interest of the game."

                          Despite concerns at the possible loss of one of the sport's biggest draws, Gosper also believes that the fierce debate between clubs and unions surrounding the future of the competition is also a positive sign. "The good news is that the strength of the international game and the club game is growing and each has to define their space and live with each other and contribute to each other."
                          Negotiate. Sort it out. We are not At Home to Mr. Flounce.

                          Think that, now, should get the message across.

                          Edit: emphasis added for what I feel is the crucial bit.
                          Last edited by Thomond78; 14th-September-2013, 07:54.
                          Ceterum censeo INM irrumandum esse.

                          Comment


                            Originally posted by Hugged Rugger View Post
                            like the ashes
                            just without the history, world wide interest, or 2 year gap between each series
                            \"A million monkeys with a million crayons would be hard-pressed in a million years to create anything as cretinous as Battlefield Earth.\"

                            Comment


                              Originally posted by Evil Omer View Post
                              just without the history, world wide interest, or 2 year gap between each series
                              Or, now he's coaching our backs, Shane Warne.
                              Ceterum censeo INM irrumandum esse.

                              Comment


                                i said like not the same as. if the anglo frog cup was every 2 years i'd hav said Just like the ashes :)
                                "Some people don't know their easy lives... I wouldn't be so ungrateful" - Fiacre Ryan - #AutismAndMe

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