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    Originally posted by tickettout
    Stop posting childish posters - we already know you're king of the internet forums.
    Then answer the question: how come the weakest league is supposedly so great? In fact, I'll pose another one: when was the last time the Pro12 had no teams in the semi-finals? And when was the last time the AP had none? In fact, when was the last time there was only one team from the Pro12 in the knock-stages, and when only one English team?

    And then consider this, astonishingly on-the-ball, call by Paul Ackford last year. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/rug...hip-Rugby.html
    Ceterum censeo INM irrumandum esse.

    Comment


      Originally posted by Thomond78 View Post


      Don't be a nitwit. The game here only exists because we have consistently managed to prevent the English and French clubs owning NH rugby. Remember what it was like initially when we went pro, and it looked like, prior to Kiernan and Pugh facing down the first boycott, that they'd get their way?

      And ask yourself this: if the AP is so great, how come PRL's chairman is saying most of them are losing money, and how come in the decade since 2003, the 6N has been won by teams coming from the Pro12 for half that time, with GS in 2005, 2008, 2009 and 2012, (and let's not forget the ball-buster of 2007), and the HEC 5 times, when the mighty AP has mustered one win - one - in the 6N and a whole two in the HEC?

      On any results indicator - the AP is the weakest league.
      You may be ignoring a host of variables there, not least the cyclical nature of sport, the salary cap in the AP, and that the Pro 12 is set up to facilitate the national teams peak for the 6N, and the clubs / regions peak for the HEC. This is not the case in the AP, so the results aren't strictly comparable, poor recent record of the AP and England national teams aside.

      Comment


        Originally posted by Tiger View Post


        Ignoring that 20% of 33.3% is 6%, your point is valid; however both PRL and LNR have publicly stated that there will be no HEC from next season. That offer isn't on the table anymore.
        I think that RHH (one of our northern brethren) is saying that in that scenario England would get 33.3%, France would get 33.3%, Ireland would get 15-20% and the remainder divvied up between the SRU/WRU/FIR.

        Also it's not up to PRL or LNR to say that there will be no HEC next season. Their respective unions will submit teams for some form of HEC next season, if it comes to it. As an aside, I can hardly see Boudjellal giving up his shiny new plaything.

        EDIT: Welcome to We❤Jamie.com
        The Beatings Will Continue Until Morale Improves

        Comment


          Originally posted by sewa View Post
          I dont think anyone cares if you are sick of it T78, English rugby will be back from its dip sooner rather than later. Simple maths of number of players and financial resources are on their side
          Here's the thing Sewa, the club game in England just isn't that big a deal. Viewership for AP games is nothing to write home about and the crowds each club attracts are, in many cases, significantly smaller than ours. The numbers are not big enough to attract huge amounts of sponsorship or TV money, which is why they're mostly losing money.

          In the event they, along with the French, kill off European rugby, they'll struggle to survive for long simply because the French will outspend them and hoover up their best players, just as they will ours if we can't make a good go of the Pro12.

          They're digging their own graves before the French, who are "backing them up", stab them in the back.

          Comment


            Originally posted by Tiger View Post
            You may be ignoring a host of variables there, not least the cyclical nature of sport, the salary cap in the AP, and that the Pro 12 is set up to facilitate the national teams peak for the 6N, and the clubs / regions peak for the HEC. This is not the case in the AP, so the results aren't strictly comparable, poor recent record of the AP and England national teams aside.
            Cyclical is one thing, but when it's gone on the length of a decent pro career at the top, it's beyond cycles. The salary cap may be a factor, but the truth is, when the PRL chairman is saying most of the teams are losing money with the salary cap, then the simple truth is that without it, there'd be an arms-race instantly trying to keep up with the French, the haves would rapidly buy out or crush the have-nots, English rugby would be beggared and the have-nots would, in short order, be as one with great names of the past like Orrell, London Scottish or Richmond. That there's near as damn it a ring-fencing of the AP, with the shareholding issues and others canvassed in the LW appeal, is another indicator.

            Truth is, there's a gang of four at the top of the AP - Sarries, Quins, Leicester, Stains - who have made up the last four for what, five years now? There is more of a genuine churn in the Pro12.

            Edit: what Sewa said.
            Ceterum censeo INM irrumandum esse.

            Comment


              Originally posted by Munsterboy View Post
              Here's the thing Sewa, the club game in England just isn't that big a deal. Viewership for AP games is nothing to write home about and the crowds each club attracts are, in many cases, significantly smaller than ours. The numbers are not big enough to attract huge amounts of sponsorship or TV money, which is why they're mostly losing money.

              In the event they, along with the French, kill off European rugby, they'll struggle to survive for long simply because the French will outspend them and hoover up their best players, just as they will ours if we can't make a good go of the Pro12.

              They're digging their own graves before the French, who are "backing them up", stab them in the back.
              England have played in three RWC finals, they didnt get to them by accident
              My computer thinks I'm gay
              What's the difference anyway
              When all the people do all day
              Is stare into a phone

              Comment


                Originally posted by The Word Is Born View Post
                I think that RHH (one of our northern brethren) is saying that in that scenario England would get 33.3%, France would get 33.3%, Ireland would get 15-20% and the remainder divvied up between the SRU/WRU/FIR.

                Also it's not up to PRL or LNR to say that there will be no HEC next season. Their respective unions will submit teams for some form of HEC next season, if it comes to it. As an aside, I can hardly see Boudjellal giving up his shiny new plaything.

                EDIT: Welcome to We❤Jamie.com
                Thank you.

                The LNR have stated, through Goze, their president, that they won't take part in a competition without the AP clubs. Other club presidents have come out and said the same thing, and, indeed, the president of Toulouse last night accused the ERC of outright lying in its press releases. You would think that they would have come to an agreement with all of them onboard, including Toulon, before nailing their colours to the mast of an alliance with PRL.

                You are correct that it's not for the PRL and LNR to state there won't be an HEC next season. All other stakeholders can form a tournament. They are perfectly within their rights though to say that their sides won't be in it, as they gave the 2 year requisite notice. The RFU won't be able to submit any teams for this - the PRL have the right to submit club sides for European competition under the agreement signed in 2007 and which came into force in 2008. The Union gave up that right as part of the agreement to negotiate release and rest periods for the England Elite and Saxons squads.

                Comment


                  Originally posted by Thomond78 View Post
                  I will be perfectly honest, my position is moving. I would actually now welcome the English going. I've had it. The endless mendacity, the bullying, the incessant insistence that their turgid, money-losing, never-winning ****e is somehow gold, the complete inability to face the fact that, bluntly, they're drek and the results show they're drek, the lies - what they bring simply isn't worth it. I'd try to keep the French, because they are good and their fans are great and the venues are great. But going to somewhere like Coventry, or a ****-hole like Reading or Milton Keynes? Nah. Couldn't be bothered. Break them to slap down their owners' money-and-power grab, yes. But that done, and once Sky come on board with the cash to break BT, I really couldn't give a **** what they do. And I doubt I'm alone.

                  I don't think there'll be a HEC next year. I think European rugby may well be dead. Because, simply, I think the English have finally destroyed any goodwill here, and in most of the Pro12, to work with them. Looking at the fan forums here, MF.com is bloody placid compared to some.
                  Well said that man. Don't give a ****ing inch. I and many others are sick to the back teeth of the English arrogance and bullying tactics. If we give in it will be to the detriment of European rugby outside a few cosy clubs in god forsaken places like Leicester, Northampton and London.
                  Commemorate Nevin Spence here -
                  http://www.mycharity.ie/event/munste..._nevin_spence/

                  Comment


                    Originally posted by tickettout
                    How is the AP the weakest league?
                    They've had 6 European cup successes- the same as the Rabo league.

                    The Premiership is full of wonderful fixtures with loads of tradition each weekend - The Rabo is full of meaningless fixtures in empty stadiums with the exception of when the Irish provinces play each other:
                    why are the Welsh are running out of the Rabo?
                    http://www.joe.ie/rugby/rugby-featur...ove-to-france/
                    Fla agrees with the sentiment that Irish provinces have a distinct advantage in the HEC due to the nature of the Rabo league.
                    We''ll only ever know its weaker when the qualification process for the Rabo mirrors the AP and Top 14.

                    Its absolute lunacy to suggest that somehow their domestic leagues don't impact their HEC performance.

                    You don't have to like either party to concede that much. We grade the AP on its performance in the HEC. They claim its down to the Rabo being watered down.
                    I always knew Madigan was a closet Scrum Half. Ignore All things that suggest Continuity.

                    Comment


                      Originally posted by Jackie Brown View Post
                      Well said that man. Don't give a ****ing inch. I and many others are sick to the back teeth of the English arrogance and bullying tactics. If we give in it will be to the detriment of European rugby outside a few cosy clubs in god forsaken places like Leicester, Northampton and London.
                      Doesnt your Queen live in london?
                      My computer thinks I'm gay
                      What's the difference anyway
                      When all the people do all day
                      Is stare into a phone

                      Comment


                        Originally posted by tickettout
                        How is the AP the weakest league?
                        They've had 6 European cup successes- the same as the Rabo league.

                        The Premiership is full of wonderful fixtures with loads of tradition each weekend - The Rabo is full of meaningless fixtures in empty stadiums with the exception of when the Irish provinces play each other:
                        why are the Welsh are running out of the Rabo?
                        http://www.joe.ie/rugby/rugby-featur...ove-to-france/
                        Fla agrees with the sentiment that Irish provinces have a distinct advantage in the HEC due to the nature of the Rabo league.
                        Number of wins in a decade: 2 AP, 5 Pro 12.

                        Number of wins since the Celtic League actually came into existence: 3 AP, 5 Pro 12 - and that extra one involved the ref-bosher Back.

                        You want to see what it looks like when a first-mover advantage goes, that's it, right there.
                        Ceterum censeo INM irrumandum esse.

                        Comment


                          Originally posted by sewa View Post
                          Doesnt your Queen live in london?
                          Jackie Brown and me agreeing. It's the End Times, people.
                          Ceterum censeo INM irrumandum esse.

                          Comment


                            Originally posted by Thomond78 View Post
                            Cyclical is one thing, but when it's gone on the length of a decent pro career at the top, it's beyond cycles. The salary cap may be a factor, but the truth is, when the PRL chairman is saying most of the teams are losing money with the salary cap, then the simple truth is that without it, there'd be an arms-race instantly trying to keep up with the French, the haves would rapidly buy out or crush the have-nots, English rugby would be beggared and the have-nots would, in short order, be as one with great names of the past like Orrell, London Scottish or Richmond. That there's near as damn it a ring-fencing of the AP, with the shareholding issues and others canvassed in the LW appeal, is another indicator.

                            Truth is, there's a gang of four at the top of the AP - Sarries, Quins, Leicester, Stains - who have made up the last four for what, five years now? There is more of a genuine churn in the Pro12.

                            Edit: what Sewa said.
                            Well considering the Irish season is built around the HC it's hardly surprising that we do better than the AP teams.

                            Comment


                              time for a bit of English bashing it is so

                              An Englishman will burn his bed to catch a flea


                              Turkish saying
                              Frank the Tank is not coming back. OK? That part of me is over, water under the bridge.

                              Comment


                                For anyone confused as to why the IRFU are siding with the FIR, SRU and WRU. Think about what could happen if the SRU and FIR in particular lost out on HC money. The odd season OK, but long term. It would destroy any hope of these unions being competitive at the top level. It would also destroy the Rabo, without which our provinces would also be scuppered.

                                The survival of Celtic and Italian rugby is at stake in these negotiations.
                                Commemorate Nevin Spence here -
                                http://www.mycharity.ie/event/munste..._nevin_spence/

                                Comment

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