Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

The Future of the Heineken Cup In Doubt?

Collapse
This topic is closed.
X
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

    Originally posted by sewa View Post
    I see Reddan has joined Kearney in the all us top pros might run off to France game in todays Indo
    30-something second-choicer-at-best sending out come-and-get-me signals?

    Off you go, Eoin. If they let Johnny Cash off, they'd not bat an eyelid over you.

    Edit: having seen the comments in reliable sources like D'Exa, it seems he's much less controversial. "Could be a risk, can't see a HEC-less world, not really thinking about it." Pretty bland. In the Exa in particular he was going out of his way to say the English media puff up their competition but our media don't reflect how seriously the Pro12 teams take it.
    Last edited by Thomond78; 13th-September-2013, 11:29.
    Ceterum censeo INM irrumandum esse.

    Comment


      Originally posted by at henry View Post
      http://www.independent.ie/sport/rugb...-29575927.html

      Pure bluff. They have nothing solid, and they know it.
      Let's remember, btw: the IRFU own all Irish teams, the SRU all Scottish. The WRU part-own the Drags. The Italians - you know, the ones not supposed to be there? - are FIR controlled.

      And they all have participation agreements with the Pro12. Owned by the unions.
      Ceterum censeo INM irrumandum esse.

      Comment


        Originally posted by Thomond78 View Post
        http://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/r...-boost-4720006

        Do you ever check your facts before posting?
        1M each? Did you check what Lydiate, North and Roberts are being paid. I suggest you do. Might cover 6-7 player salaries in France.

        We're still clinging to the status quo pipe dream here I see. Its quite amusing. Onwards to the cliffs.
        I always knew Madigan was a closet Scrum Half. Ignore All things that suggest Continuity.

        Comment


          Originally posted by The Outlaw View Post

          As regards Connacht. We've survived on scraps for years so I wouldn't worry about us. We're not dependant on HEC income as much as the other three provinces.
          Your auld arse, Connacht are just as dependent on the HEC as the rest. They might not have received quite the same amount of money from the IRFU but a lot of that is based on HEC revenue. Ulster also rode on the coat-tails of Leinster and Munster in that respect as well up until we finally managed to jump out of the group before you say anything as well.

          As well all know by now money is what its all about and the reason the clubs; French and English, are trying to cede from the Unions is because both the RFU and FFR ensure that there is an equal split throughout the teams involved i.e. Leicester get the same as Bath who don't play in the HEC. I am also quite sure that's how it works in France as well though not 100%. What PRL want to do is increase their share first and foremost to an unreasonable 33.3%. This, frustratingly, unquestioned position that they bring 'the most' to the table is quite frankly a lie.

          1-In the last 8 years, Wasps aside, their teams have been largely a non-entity in the latter stages of the HEC.
          2-Their 'bums on seats' figures have been heavily subsidised by Irish supporters in particular-Milton Keynes for the Northampton/Ulster quarter final springs to mind as does Saracens versus Ulster last season where an estimated 15,000 Ulster fans (conservative) attended proceedings.
          3-The spin that because they represent the biggest 'sky' region that the viewing figures somehow jutify their claims are equally spurious. I believe that viewing figures for the last 5/6 HEC finals have only seen a decline in the event of an all-french final and that the Leinster V Ulster had the highest TV viewing figures for a final as well as the largest single attendance at an HEC match.

          The Heineken Cup is not broken. It can be improved and indeed should be improved within agreement of all the stakeholders. This is not Premier League or European soccer, the Unions exist to protect the best interests of the game not solely the commercial considerations. Bowing to the PRL/LNR would be the end of rugby as we know it because it will, initially, go the way of football.

          What the PRL cannot see however is if this happened it would only be the start of things to come. English clubs, a few apart, are losing money year on year. None of the club owners are as ludicrously wealthy or perhaps as flagrant with their wealth as the Boujedalls, Lorretti's etc of this world. The English claim the salary cap inhibits them, thats ballocks of the highest order. Sarries, Leicester, the Stains and perhaps Quins could afford to break the salary cap...the rest#? Not a chance. There is also a limited demand for rugby in England as can be seen with Saracens, a supposed 'big' team only having a 10,000 seater stadium or something similar. Rugby, as a marketable product/attraction to sponsors is also not even remotely close. I know personally how difficult marketing even a successful rugby brand is or has been for the last 3/4 years especially when it came to negotiating deals signed in the boom times. The PRL are pinning all their hopes and dreams on a supposed mega-money TV deal which is a white elephant in the long term.

          And the talk of leaving anyone behind is absurd. Irish Rugby probably could get a decent deal out of these planks, as a matter of opinion (my own) I could imagine Browne could probably demand perhaps a 15-20% share of the remaining 33.3% that the PRL/LNR are kindly offering us. They'd be mad to turn us down given the scale in which we as a support base travel to support our respective teams. The point is that the international game is still, thankfully, the highest level of the game within Rugby Union. The clubs have a vital role to play and should not be overly shackled when it comes to making money but it has to be remembered there is more in play here than money. We have 6 credible international rugby teams in Europe, there is then a significant drop off to the middle-tier teams like Georgia, Spain etc. It should be the aspiration of european rugby and world rugby to have 10/12 credible teams within the next two decades.

          If power is given to PRL, Nigel Wray, Peter Toms, etc etc to hell with the rest is their stinking attitude and that is wrong.

          Also, if players want to tiddle away off like Super Rob hinted, let them. Bring back a staunch ruling that only players playing in Ireland can play for Ireland. Provided we can get close to the going rate in terms of salary we ought to be able to hold onto our own by and large. Some offers will dwarf us-Sexton. Some players may genuinely want to play abroad-Heaslip strikes me as such a character. Fair enough, good luck to them but we don't have to pick em.

          Comment


            Originally posted by The Outlaw View Post
            1M each? Did you check what Lydiate, North and Roberts are being paid. I suggest you do. Might cover 6-7 player salaries in France.

            We're still clinging to the status quo pipe dream here I see. Its quite amusing. Onwards to the cliffs.
            How much are Lydiate, Roberts and North being paid? I don't know but I'd be surprised if any of them were on more than 250-300k

            Comment


              Originally posted by Red Hand Hero View Post
              Your auld arse, Connacht are just as dependent on the HEC as the rest.
              More tea, vicar...?
              Ceterum censeo INM irrumandum esse.

              Comment


                Originally posted by Red Hand Hero View Post
                How much are Lydiate, Roberts and North being paid? I don't know but I'd be surprised if any of them were on more than 250-300k
                North is on a reputed 300k a year, than leaves 700k for the other two.
                I'm not sure why you are reacting so much...the lad is a spoofer and it has been proved time and time again.

                Comment


                  Originally posted by Red Hand Hero View Post
                  How much are Lydiate, Roberts and North being paid? I don't know but I'd be surprised if any of them were on more than 250-300k
                  I'd say you would be close enough with that figure.

                  Comment


                    One thing we saw this week is that the majority of English and French fans (the market) want a Heineken cup to continue. I hear nobody saying they'd prefer an Anglo French cup. Whats really happening is the PRL and NLR are threatening the Celts/Italians that they'll cut off access to that market to them unless English and French clubs get an even bigger slice of the pie (they already have twice as much as the other unions). Blackmail would be the word that comes to mind.

                    Comment


                      Originally posted by Red Hand Hero View Post
                      Your auld arse, Connacht are just as dependent on the HEC as the rest. They might not have received quite the same amount of money from the IRFU but a lot of that is based on HEC revenue. Ulster also rode on the coat-tails of Leinster and Munster in that respect as well up until we finally managed to jump out of the group before you say anything as well.

                      As well all know by now money is what its all about and the reason the clubs; French and English, are trying to cede from the Unions is because both the RFU and FFR ensure that there is an equal split throughout the teams involved i.e. Leicester get the same as Bath who don't play in the HEC. I am also quite sure that's how it works in France as well though not 100%. What PRL want to do is increase their share first and foremost to an unreasonable 33.3%. This, frustratingly, unquestioned position that they bring 'the most' to the table is quite frankly a lie.

                      1-In the last 8 years, Wasps aside, their teams have been largely a non-entity in the latter stages of the HEC.
                      2-Their 'bums on seats' figures have been heavily subsidised by Irish supporters in particular-Milton Keynes for the Northampton/Ulster quarter final springs to mind as does Saracens versus Ulster last season where an estimated 15,000 Ulster fans (conservative) attended proceedings.
                      3-The spin that because they represent the biggest 'sky' region that the viewing figures somehow jutify their claims are equally spurious. I believe that viewing figures for the last 5/6 HEC finals have only seen a decline in the event of an all-french final and that the Leinster V Ulster had the highest TV viewing figures for a final as well as the largest single attendance at an HEC match.

                      The Heineken Cup is not broken. It can be improved and indeed should be improved within agreement of all the stakeholders. This is not Premier League or European soccer, the Unions exist to protect the best interests of the game not solely the commercial considerations. Bowing to the PRL/LNR would be the end of rugby as we know it because it will, initially, go the way of football.

                      What the PRL cannot see however is if this happened it would only be the start of things to come. English clubs, a few apart, are losing money year on year. None of the club owners are as ludicrously wealthy or perhaps as flagrant with their wealth as the Boujedalls, Lorretti's etc of this world. The English claim the salary cap inhibits them, thats ballocks of the highest order. Sarries, Leicester, the Stains and perhaps Quins could afford to break the salary cap...the rest#? Not a chance. There is also a limited demand for rugby in England as can be seen with Saracens, a supposed 'big' team only having a 10,000 seater stadium or something similar. Rugby, as a marketable product/attraction to sponsors is also not even remotely close. I know personally how difficult marketing even a successful rugby brand is or has been for the last 3/4 years especially when it came to negotiating deals signed in the boom times. The PRL are pinning all their hopes and dreams on a supposed mega-money TV deal which is a white elephant in the long term.

                      And the talk of leaving anyone behind is absurd. Irish Rugby probably could get a decent deal out of these planks, as a matter of opinion (my own) I could imagine Browne could probably demand perhaps a 15-20% share of the remaining 33.3% that the PRL/LNR are kindly offering us. They'd be mad to turn us down given the scale in which we as a support base travel to support our respective teams. The point is that the international game is still, thankfully, the highest level of the game within Rugby Union. The clubs have a vital role to play and should not be overly shackled when it comes to making money but it has to be remembered there is more in play here than money. We have 6 credible international rugby teams in Europe, there is then a significant drop off to the middle-tier teams like Georgia, Spain etc. It should be the aspiration of european rugby and world rugby to have 10/12 credible teams within the next two decades.

                      If power is given to PRL, Nigel Wray, Peter Toms, etc etc to hell with the rest is their stinking attitude and that is wrong.

                      Also, if players want to tiddle away off like Super Rob hinted, let them. Bring back a staunch ruling that only players playing in Ireland can play for Ireland. Provided we can get close to the going rate in terms of salary we ought to be able to hold onto our own by and large. Some offers will dwarf us-Sexton. Some players may genuinely want to play abroad-Heaslip strikes me as such a character. Fair enough, good luck to them but we don't have to pick em.
                      Our starting outhalf this year with Parks out injured is likely to be an AIL player from last year. Contrast that with the other provinces. Our how do you reckon his contract is? So work that out when you're asking are we as dependant on HEC Income as the rest.
                      If all else fails and we end up outside a reformed European competition with only a Rabo league to play in it won't be a whole lot different from 3 years ago. But it will be one hell of a change for the other provinces who will have a 2 year window to hope the other competition fails before financially it starts to bite them on the ass.

                      I'm not overly bothered whether any of the above appeals to you or anyone else. That's my opinion.

                      As regards bringing in threats of only picking irish based players for international duty. The international game funds the game here. So the coach and the IRFU are not going to put silly restraints on an international coach to reduce our competitiveness. That would be even more stupid. We're hardly NZ as the international rankings indicate.
                      I always knew Madigan was a closet Scrum Half. Ignore All things that suggest Continuity.

                      Comment


                        Kearney seemed somewhat envious when Sexton when he got his French contract.Comments about the floodgates opening
                        Everything we hear is an opinion, not a fact. Everything we see is a perspective, not the truth. (Marcus Aurelius, 121-189 AD)

                        Comment


                          Originally posted by Bitter As A Lemon View Post
                          North is on a reputed 300k a year
                          But how much is North's dog being paid to lick Mallinder's balls?
                          The Beatings Will Continue Until Morale Improves

                          Comment


                            Originally posted by The Outlaw View Post
                            Our starting outhalf this year with Parks out injured is likely to be an AIL player from last year. Contrast that with the other provinces.
                            Remind me what was JJ doing last year?
                            The Beatings Will Continue Until Morale Improves

                            Comment


                              Originally posted by The Word Is Born View Post
                              Remind me what was JJ doing last year?
                              Killing UL Bohs.

                              Comment


                                FRENCH RUGBY'S RICH LIST (£/MONTH)

                                1) Jonny Wilkinson (Toulon) - £48,155

                                2) Jonathan Sexton (Racing Metro) - £44,711

                                3) Bryan Habana (Toulon) - £42,991

                                4) Morgan Parra (Clermont Auvergne) - £39,555

                                5) Thierry Dusautoir (Toulouse) - £36,975

                                6) Dimitri Szarzewski (Racing Metro) - £35,254

                                7) Carl Hayman (Toulon) - £35,254

                                8) Bakkies Botha (Toulon) - £35,254

                                9) Jamie Roberts (Racing Metro) - £34,394

                                10) Matt Giteau (Toulon) - £34,394
                                [Figures from Le Journal du Dimanche]




                                Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/rug...#ixzz2elv6iDAx
                                Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook


                                Roberts 600k, Lydiate 400k

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X