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The Future of the Heineken Cup In Doubt?

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    #16
    Originally posted by Thomond78 View Post

    The RFU confirmed PRL didn't have the prior written approval necessary under IRB Regulations to sell the rights as they did. Problem is, led by that gob****e from Saracens, they look willing to shut down all European rugby as their escape route.
    Can they be sacked? Anyone in the high grass for us?
    I am the million man.

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      #17
      Originally posted by Corcíoch View Post
      I think folks are underestimating how big this issue is getting. This isn't a whinge and cry problem that will go away. The English / French Orgs are standing very firm on this. The team no's but also in the English case the TV rights. They seem to be adamant about their sale to BT.

      As it stands now, next year is the last H Cup Comp.
      They need us more than we need them. Let the English AP and French T14 clubs leave the HC! It's the unions that hold the nomination rights. If the RFU have balls they'll either nominate Championship teams or regional selections and isolate the greedy b***rds! They'll come running back in short order and the RFU will regain control of their game. The French union should do similar.

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        #18
        Originally posted by Borderfox View Post
        They need us more than we need them. Let the English AP and French T14 clubs leave the HC! It's the unions that hold the nomination rights. If the RFU have balls they'll either nominate Championship teams or regional selections and isolate the greedy b***rds! They'll come running back in short order and the RFU will regain control of their game. The French union should do similar.
        They have gone on record as saying the exact opposite. The Top 14 Clubs and the Aviva Premiership Clubs claim they can exist fine financially within their own leagues and the revenue from said leagues.

        We cannot. 2 full seasons of no H Cup would break the likes of Munster, Leinster etc imo........

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          #19
          The Aviva Premiership are a shower of spoofers that couldn't draw flies to horse sh!t on their own in a European context and they know it. Any European competition without Munster, Leinster and Ulster would be a paper championship. The English public would also tire pretty quickly of finishing in the bottom half of any Anglo-French competition without any whipping boy Welsh/Italian teams to puff out the results.
          To The Brave and the Faithful, Nothing is Unpublishable.

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            #20
            Originally posted by joeriddick View Post
            The Aviva Premiership are a shower of spoofers that couldn't draw flies to horse sh!t on their own in a European context and they know it. Any European competition without Munster, Leinster and Ulster would be a paper championship. The English public would also tire pretty quickly of finishing in the bottom half of any Anglo-French competition without any whipping boy Welsh/Italian teams to puff out the results.
            I agree fully.....Im just saying don't underestimate how dangerous these moves, and the idiots behind them are...........such is their arrogance/ greed etc.

            They may be utterly wrong about their ability to survive financially ...........but the mere fact that they believe they can makes them a threat.

            We saw in the Amlin how little the teams outside the Top 4 in the AP have to offer.


            They are dangerous spoofers imo. The threat is real I believe.

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              #21
              Originally posted by Corcíoch View Post
              They have gone on record as saying the exact opposite. The Top 14 Clubs and the Aviva Premiership Clubs claim they can exist fine financially within their own leagues and the revenue from said leagues.

              We cannot. 2 full seasons of no H Cup would break the likes of Munster, Leinster etc imo........
              They say more than their prayers!! With their voracious appetite for money, they need the HC. In any case I'd rather we let them go than go with anything like those terms- even if it was very tough for us. And, as I stated- the RFO and FFR should be most engaged by this and want to break the hold of the clubs. If I was the unions I'd b e secretly relishing the chance to sort them our. I repeat th unions can nominate any clubs or selections it wants to the competitions.

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                #22
                Originally posted by Borderfox View Post
                They say more than their prayers!! With their voracious appetite for money, they need the HC. In any case I'd rather we let them go than go with anything like those terms- even if it was very tough for us. And, as I stated- the RFO and FFR should be most engaged by this and want to break the hold of the clubs. If I was the unions I'd b e secretly relishing the chance to sort them our. I repeat th unions can nominate any clubs or selections it wants to the competitions.

                And that is a fine idea......but the TV money would not follow, the add money etc would not follow Irish Provinces V The Cornish Pirates in the H Cup.......it would be a joke.

                I dont agree with the AP clubs, or the Top 14 bunch.

                Im simply saying his threat is very real imo. Its not simple saber rattling imo.

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                  #23
                  Originally posted by Corcíoch View Post
                  And that is a fine idea......but the TV money would not follow, the add money etc would not follow Irish Provinces V The Cornish Pirates in the H Cup.......it would be a joke.

                  I dont agree with the AP clubs, or the Top 14 bunch.

                  Im simply saying his threat is very real imo. Its not simple saber rattling imo.
                  With respect- you don't know what the money will follow with careful selection and good marketing!
                  Would Munster versus the 'West Country' not be capable of being marketed? Or Leinster versus 'London'? Of course they would! Especially if there were more local players evident on their sides than currently. Two years of that and the RFU could being the AP owners to heel.
                  Last edited by Borderfox; 30th-April-2013, 21:51.

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                    #24
                    It makes no sense for the celtic nations to sign up to the deal as it stands, whther tis death now if the english pull out or death in two seasons when the Scots and Italians collapse and the Irish and Welsh have no league is just timing, Currently the celts have something like 60 -66% of the pot. The english I understand are looking to change that to some where between 33% - 50%.
                    With that sort of pot the Italians and scots are doomed.

                    The fairest for me is 7 ap, 7 french, 1 scot, 1 italian, 1 welsh, 1 Irish and four more rabo places based on merit.
                    And then the winner of the HEC and winner of the Amlin.


                    Alternatively, the celts could offer 8 Rabo, 8 French and 6 english. Get the French on board and if the english want a little holiday for themselves let them off.
                    Seven social sins: politics without principles, wealth without work, pleasure without conscience, knowledge without character, commerce without morality, science without humanity, and worship without sacrifice



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                      #25
                      No point in having a European competition that doesn't include Munster, Leinster, Leicester, and Toulouse amongst the competitors.

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                        #26
                        Originally posted by joeriddick View Post
                        The Aviva Premiership are a shower of spoofers that couldn't draw flies to horse sh!t on their own in a European context and they know it. Any European competition without Munster, Leinster and Ulster would be a paper championship. The English public would also tire pretty quickly of finishing in the bottom half of any Anglo-French competition without any whipping boy Welsh/Italian teams to puff out the results.
                        As per usual, your argument (or poorly letter ad hominum attack) completely ignores the actual facts about what is currently taking place.

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                          #27
                          I think many of you are missing the point of any negotiation which is compromise. This is a well thought out strategy imo this time. We have 10 places and they offer 6 with each union guarenteed 1. They have left the middle ground compromise position of 8 in return for concessions in relation to seedings and probably tv rights. The reason for 20 teams is hec money divided by 20 goes further than by 24. This is important to the clubs. The other thing required by english is reform of amlin. They want that to be a stronger comp. If the hec goes to a 20 team format on a split of 6/6/8 then the amlin will be 20 on a split of 8/6/4 + 2 qualifiers from italy/ georgia/ romania etc. Thats the bones of their view of europe going forward.

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                            #28
                            Another factor that I heard discussed on the BBC radio four 'media show' is that a lot of media watchers think BT vision could have massively overfaced themselves and could be ripe to do a Setanta UK and go spectacularly skint.

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                              #29
                              Originally posted by the plastic paddy View Post
                              Another factor that I heard discussed on the BBC radio four 'media show' is that a lot of media watchers think BT vision could have massively overfaced themselves and could be ripe to do a Setanta UK and go spectacularly skint.
                              They'll find trying to buy market share difficult for sure, even with some exclusive content. Sky are dominant.
                              Yorn desh born, der ritt de gitt der gue,
                              Orn desh, dee born desh, de umn bork! bork! bork!

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                                #30
                                My idea would be a 24 team tournament. 2 teams, winners of the HEC and Amlin. the 22 are made up of six from each league. The rabo six made up of the top two Irish, top two welsh and top scots and Italian.

                                The next placed Welsh and Irish teams and the two italian and Scots teams then play off against the 7th and 8th placed teams in the AP and T14. The games are seeded with the 1 from rabo playing fourth from the combined AP/ T14 etc, with the seedings for those leagues based on euro rankings. The ties are played home and away. EDIT the four winners of the ties go into the Heineken.
                                Last edited by the plastic paddy; 1st-May-2013, 11:01.

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