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The Future of the Heineken Cup In Doubt?

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    Apparently Eircom are going to launch IPTv next year, the BT sports channel is something they have lined up
    The Source for this post is The Internet
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      Originally posted by dropkick View Post
      Interesting development. A bidding war in France means more money on the table and so might strengthen any English French alliance.
      there isn't really an English - French alliance though. That they have different aims and reasons would be shown up the first time it was put to the test.
      \"A million monkeys with a million crayons would be hard-pressed in a million years to create anything as cretinous as Battlefield Earth.\"

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        Originally posted by Evil Omer View Post
        there isn't really an English - French alliance though. That they have different aims and reasons would be shown up the first time it was put to the test.
        As there was no alliance in SANZARland 15 years ago.
        Then Rupert Murdoch came as Jaysus and said "I spoke to god and he told me money rules. Make a Super 12, and money will follow".
        A kind of revelation with hidden microphones and sexy toilet scenes with cameras and smartphones.

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          Originally posted by Hellboy View Post
          As there was no alliance in SANZARland 15 years ago.
          Then Rupert Murdoch came as Jaysus and said "I spoke to god and he told me money rules. Make a Super 12, and money will follow".
          A kind of revelation with hidden microphones and sexy toilet scenes with cameras and smartphones.
          question though would be would FFR trust the English considering their track record? Would the English make the kind of concessions from their own cut not just from everyone else's?
          \"A million monkeys with a million crayons would be hard-pressed in a million years to create anything as cretinous as Battlefield Earth.\"

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            Originally posted by Hellboy View Post
            As there was no alliance in SANZARland 15 years ago.
            Then Rupert Murdoch came as Jaysus and said "I spoke to god and he told me money rules. Make a Super 12, and money will follow".
            A kind of revelation with hidden microphones and sexy toilet scenes with cameras and smartphones.
            Super10 (as was) pre-dates professionalism.
            Ceterum censeo INM irrumandum esse.

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              Originally posted by Evil Omer View Post
              question though would be would FFR trust the English considering their track record? Would the English make the kind of concessions from their own cut not just from everyone else's?
              Imagine if a Qatar TV with unlimited money decided to create a kind of Greenwich Conference with english franchises and french franchises, maybe south african ones or argentinian ones... Free of ERC, FFR, RFU and clubs leagues....
              As Super 10 (thanks for correcting that Thomond) did it, finally...
              Murdoch and SANZAR put money on the table, a lot to IRB and nevermind the "local" federations and clubs, they got to deal with it.

              I'm pretty sure IRB would never spit on a huge back hander and sunny holidays in Oil land...

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                Does this (hardly surprising) news weaken the negotiating position of the English clubs?

                "BT has so far failed to get the public to switch on to its promise of Premier League football, adding just 23,000 TV subscribers in the three months to 30 June.

                "The company will be concerned that the rate of growth of new subscribers has slumped by almost 43% – it signed up 40,000 subscribers in the previous quarter – despite running a star-studded multimillion-pound ad campaign to entice new customers to its TV service. It spent about £1bn on the rights to 38 Premier League matches each season."

                http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2013...premier-league

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                  One suspects so. If their hole card is BT, but BT aren't delivering the numbers to justify the money, it just encourages everyone else to hold hard, stay with Sky, and let the English stew.
                  Ceterum censeo INM irrumandum esse.

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                    Originally posted by Thomond78 View Post
                    One suspects so. If their hole card is BT, but BT aren't delivering the numbers to justify the money, it just encourages everyone else to hold hard, stay with Sky, and let the English stew.
                    So its going to continue to be drawn out as everyone waits?
                    I find your lack of faith disturbing....

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                      Anyone remember BSB? They actually won the UK satellite licence, Sky (Murdoch) lost. Eventually they lost so much they were taken over by Sky
                      Nulla semper amicus, servivit mihi, in iniuriam mihi neminem quem non persolvi

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                        To be honest, whoever launched the strategy at BT wants their head checked. They've decided to enter a crowded TV market place where people already have providers in place, and use the lure of TV content to transfer people onto their broadband service. Without patronising the general public, they're asking them to make a fairly sophisticated decision about service transfer and bundled provision.

                        So, for instance, am I better staying with my faster Virgin Fibre Optic broadband, which I can get at 60/80/100 mbps depending on my package, and subscribing to their services as a pay tv service by switching from sky sports, or switching to a slower, maybe more expensive broadband package on the basis that I get free sports TV?

                        For some people there'll be a further confusion about how these services get onto their TV. Do they need a new set top box? Can they keep their other premium services from Virgin or Sky?

                        BT have tried to replicate a strategy that sky used for TV subscription numbers years ago in an immature market, where you went with provider X because they had content Y. The buying decisions about bundles now are far more complex, with broadband speeds, telephone line rental and charges, the availability of most premium channels on multiple platforms etc etc.

                        They're just not going to get people switching packages wholesale for the relatively limited amount of sport they might actually watch.
                        "We will not walk in fear, one of another. We will not be driven into an age of unreason if we dig deep into our history and remember we are not descended from fearful men" Edward R Murrow

                        "Little by little, we have been brought into the present condition in which we are able neither to tolerate the evils from which we suffer, nor the remedies we need to cure them." - Livy


                        "I think that progress has been made by two flames that have always been burning in the human heart. The flame of anger against injustice and the flame of hope that you can build a better world" - Tony Benn

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                          Originally posted by Balla Boy View Post
                          To be honest, whoever launched the strategy at BT wants their head checked. They've decided to enter a crowded TV market place where people already have providers in place, and use the lure of TV content to transfer people onto their broadband service. Without patronising the general public, they're asking them to make a fairly sophisticated decision about service transfer and bundled provision.

                          So, for instance, am I better staying with my faster Virgin Fibre Optic broadband, which I can get at 60/80/100 mbps depending on my package, and subscribing to their services as a pay tv service by switching from sky sports, or switching to a slower, maybe more expensive broadband package on the basis that I get free sports TV?

                          For some people there'll be a further confusion about how these services get onto their TV. Do they need a new set top box? Can they keep their other premium services from Virgin or Sky?

                          BT have tried to replicate a strategy that sky used for TV subscription numbers years ago in an immature market, where you went with provider X because they had content Y. The buying decisions about bundles now are far more complex, with broadband speeds, telephone line rental and charges, the availability of most premium channels on multiple platforms etc etc.

                          They're just not going to get people switching packages wholesale for the relatively limited amount of sport they might actually watch.
                          That's pretty much cracked it alright.. spot on.

                          Comment


                            The big issue for BT is people generally don't change provider that much. Even when they are arsed, if and when you ring up your current provider 99% of the time they will match any other deal you are being offered. So why change?

                            Then there are the existing BT broadband customers who BT seem to have ignored completely. They have a large customer base there. Just send them a BT Vision Box, and tell them they now have a new TV service for free. It's pretty simple but I cannot fathom out why they are ignoring their existing base of over 6 million BT broadband subscribers. Instead as an existing customer you need to add it to your Sky account, or get BT Vision (£4 extra per month) BUT you can watch for free on the BT app or online.

                            Talk about complicated!
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                              Am I reading too much into this (recall the Peace Process negotiations)? McGrath says that all the stakeholders reject the idea of PR+BT as the basis for a new deal, presumably that includes LNR, FFR and the RFU.

                              He says that everyone, apart from PR, sees the only viable way to continue a European Cup competition is within a single organisation. I wold take that meaning that some form of BT/Sky division od TV rights or some sort of PR/ERC arrangement is out. He's playing hard ball and will take it to the wire.

                              Lewis from the WRFU is saying that the WRFU will assist the RFU in helping their clubs find a way forward. That is to say pointedly PR is not the focus of the Pro12 unions and, maybe, that the future could be with RFU backed clubs rather than English clubs outside the RFU or somehow semi detached from it.

                              It also looks like the Pro12 have conceded league position qualification but that's as far as they'll go.





                              From The Guardian, July 17:


                              "Television is a sticking point and it has to be resolved if we are to move forward," said the ERC chief executive, Derek McGratht.

                              "My understanding is that the BT contract will be part of the English clubs' participation; that is not something all the other stakeholders see as a viable initiative that will take us forward.The success of our competitions has been down to our central marketing strategy. Everything is controlled by one organisation and we have a clear identity.

                              "It is very difficult to see how you could do it any other way. If you have a negotiated agreement it is very hard to work in an environment where unilateral decisions are taken and that is why the process has taken time."

                              ... McGrath said there is no prospect of a quick settlement and the three leagues will start with teams in limbo, knowing that if the Heineken Cup does survive, the qualification process is likely to change, especially for RaboDirect teams.

                              "I am confident we will get a negotiated agreement but it will take time," McGrath said. "We are in a bit of a lull now and we will re-engage in September, getting everyone round the table in the spirit of finding agreement. Everyone involved wants us to reach that point, but participation has to make sense for all six nations. The sooner we come to an agreement, the better for us, fans, teams and those who make it live, such as sponsors and broadcasters, but if it takes until the final day of the season, so be it. There is an onus on us all to ensure this competition lives."

                              Roger Lewis, the Welsh Rugby Union chief executive, said he would do everything he could to ensure the 2014 Heineken Cup final was not the last. "It is too good to lose and it is incumbent upon us all to find a solution. There will be uncertainty throughout Europe when the season starts and that is what we have to address as a matter of urgency.

                              "Everyone needs to draw back from the edge and see sense, both from a rugby point of view and because of the significant financial consequences of the Heineken Cup ending. We will give the Rugby Football Union full support in helping their clubs join us in seeing a way forward."

                              Emphasis is mine,
                              Last edited by rathbaner; 25-July-2013, 12:13.
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                                So we will start the Rabo season not knowing what the qualifying criteria for next years HEC (if it exists!) is?

                                Pure madness.
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