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The Future of the Heineken Cup In Doubt?

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    Originally posted by dermotmccarthy View Post
    .
    Hard to argue with that Dermot!

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      Originally posted by dermotmccarthy View Post
      .
      So France have 14 clubs with approx 56% French. 14 x 56= 784% (ignoring squad sizes), Ireland have 4 clubs with an average of about 90% 4 x 90 = 360%. The Frogs therefore have twice as many French pro players as Ireland have, killing the game? No your killing our heads with dumb misuse of stats

      (Not directed at Dermot)
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      What's the difference anyway
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        If Richard Harris was alive today there would be none of this crap going on. Munster's Chuck Norris
        Frank the Tank is not coming back. OK? That part of me is over, water under the bridge.

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          Originally posted by sewa View Post
          So France have 14 clubs with approx 56% French. 14 x 56= 784% (ignoring squad sizes), Ireland have 4 clubs with an average of about 90% 4 x 90 = 360%. The Frogs therefore have twice as many French pro players as Ireland have, killing the game? No your killing our heads with dumb misuse of stats

          (Not directed at Dermot)
          Will gladly admit to not being a mathematician but how can you have 794% or 360% of anything. If the Top 14 clubs have an average of say 56% French qualified players then how can you arrive at a figure of 794% for the league as a whole. Adding percentages does not give an accurate picture.
          A lion online, a lamb at home.

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            adding percentages might not give an accurate picture, but if you do some maths, sewa's statement of twice as many french players compared to Ireland, is correct.

            if you take a match day squad of 23 multiply by 56%, then mulitply by 14 you would get 180 french qualiifed players.
            for Ireland you get 83 players (23 x 90% x 4). 180/83 is 2.17

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              Originally posted by 5eight View Post
              Will gladly admit to not being a mathematician but how can you have 794% or 360% of anything. If the Top 14 clubs have an average of say 56% French qualified players then how can you arrive at a figure of 794% for the league as a whole. Adding percentages does not give an accurate picture.
              It's Sewa, let it go.

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                Originally posted by Drick View Post
                adding percentages might not give an accurate picture, but if you do some maths, sewa's statement of twice as many french players compared to Ireland, is correct.

                if you take a match day squad of 23 multiply by 56%, then mulitply by 14 you would get 180 french qualiifed players.
                for Ireland you get 83 players (23 x 90% x 4). 180/83 is 2.17
                Totally different matter. 180 French qualified players from 322 (14 x 23) = 56%. Of course the Top 14 has more qualified players, it has more players period. But Ireland has a better ratio of qualified to non qualified
                A lion online, a lamb at home.

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                  Originally posted by Drick View Post
                  adding percentages might not give an accurate picture, but if you do some maths, sewa's statement of twice as many french players compared to Ireland, is correct.

                  if you take a match day squad of 23 multiply by 56%, then mulitply by 14 you would get 180 french qualiifed players.
                  for Ireland you get 83 players (23 x 90% x 4). 180/83 is 2.17
                  Then look at the number of teams: 3.5x the Irish number.

                  And on the respective numbers of senior male players, it should be 5x.
                  Ceterum censeo INM irrumandum esse.

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                    Originally posted by sewa View Post
                    So France have 14 clubs with approx 56% French. 14 x 56= 784% (ignoring squad sizes), Ireland have 4 clubs with an average of about 90% 4 x 90 = 360%. The Frogs therefore have twice as many French pro players as Ireland have, killing the game? No your killing our heads with dumb misuse of stats

                    (Not directed at Dermot)
                    Where to begin ...
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                      There are 737 Professional rugby players in France for 14 teams. The average is 53 rugbymen/team ( Toulon is the minimum with 47, and Grenoble is the maximum with 62). So basically 737x56%=412 or 413 french players.A few years ago when the English teams were a good force in Europe, the FFR complained that our championship's level was too weak. Now they complain there aren't enough french players. While the real reason for our bad results with the national side is, that the youth training in Marcoussis is poor. The structures are really good, but not the trainers. Most of them got somebody to pull a few strings for them to get the job. And finally, most of the lessons aren't even taught by the coaches, but by sport professors from the public service.
                      Last edited by Jos; 2nd-October-2013, 09:58.

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                        413 professional French players you say and thats only allowing for the top division, they also have another pro division below that (where incidentally a lot of our young talent also play due to us having no outlet for them). So the numbers are rapidly approaching a thousand pro players in all. Seems a very healthy situation compared to us or Wales. The comparison with Scotland and Italy would be scary
                        My computer thinks I'm gay
                        What's the difference anyway
                        When all the people do all day
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                          Originally posted by 5eight View Post
                          Will gladly admit to not being a mathematician but how can you have 794% or 360% of anything. If the Top 14 clubs have an average of say 56% French qualified players then how can you arrive at a figure of 794% for the league as a whole. Adding percentages does not give an accurate picture.
                          Its statistics, not maths and actually I am a professionally qualified statistician (after a fashion) given that Stats and Chemometrics (another type of stats) were a 1/4 of my primary degree.
                          My computer thinks I'm gay
                          What's the difference anyway
                          When all the people do all day
                          Is stare into a phone

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                            Originally posted by sewa View Post
                            Its statistics, not maths and actually I am a professionally qualified statistician (after a fashion) given that Stats and Chemometrics (another type of stats) were a 1/4 of my primary degree.
                            If it was 1/4 of your primary degree, might that make you 1/4 qualified statistician (which is 100% more qualified than me)? Just asking. Of possibly you are a 100% qualified statistician 25% of the time?

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                              I think comparing it to Ireland isnt the benchmark.
                              Nz have 5 S15 rugby teams and 14 ITM/NPC with im guessing 85% minimum eligible for NZ. Its they're ability to have a domestic comp thats choc ful of kiwis...and the best feed into S15 and then into the national team.
                              That number of non eligible french players is sure to affect national team. Look at the out half position for starters.
                              Over the last few weekends 4 out of the Top 14 clubs have played a French fly half

                              Trinh Duc at Montpellier
                              Tales at Castres
                              Lopez at Perpignan *Hook has played huge amount at 10.
                              Bernard at Bordeaux.

                              Clermont (James) , Toulon (Wilko) Racing (Sexton) Toulouse (McAllister) Brive (Swanepoel), Stewart (Grenoble) ,Waenga (Biarritz) ,Brett (Bayonne), Urdapilleta (Oyonnax) and Morne Steyn impending arrival at Stade Francais.....are all starters at fly half.

                              Anyone watching 6n or international rugby knows the french have struggled at 10...and as far as im concerned the answer is in black and white.
                              Last edited by NotreDameRFC; 2nd-October-2013, 11:17.
                              "Hell, I'm not saying I'm an angel, but when it came to dirty tricks I couldn't hold a candle to the Irish Mafia" Jimmy Hoffa

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                                Originally posted by LondonMunster View Post
                                If it was 1/4 of your primary degree, might that make you 1/4 qualified statistician (which is 100% more qualified than me)? Just asking. Of possibly you are a 100% qualified statistician 25% of the time?
                                100%, 25% of the time :)

                                Getting back on topic the difference between France now and France back in the day is approach to risk / flair and discipline. Or to put it simply Laporte ruined French rugby
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