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Is the Aviva Premiership to follow its Football Equivalent?

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    #16
    I spoke to one of the Exeter board regarding this recently and he said that they're not a million miles within the salary cap and therefore doesn't believe for a second that Sarries,Leicester etc are within it given the players they've got. He said that if they're to progress as a squad, and pay the extra money that will inevitably cost, then they will have to find out the ways out getting round the salary cap.

    One ex sarries player has said that a lot of their payments involve off shore accounts, i don't know enough to know how this would work but thats part of their operation anyway.

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      #17
      I found a free place to check company accounts - Sarries are here

      http://www.levelbusiness.com/doc/company/uk/03110665

      From the PDF I've copied and pasted the part of acconts that details their salary expenses.

      Click image for larger version

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      Peatbog - I'm not saying they are clean as a whislte, but given that they are all but insolvent (the rest of the accounts paint a very unplesant picture) I'd be surprised if they are doing anything too dodgy.
      Please support Milford Hospice. Click here to donate.

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        #18
        Originally posted by fitzy73 View Post
        Sarries are a limited company - Saracens Rugby Limited. You can download their accounts if you like!
        http://www.companiesintheuk.co.uk/ltd/saracens

        HMRC would be all over them like a hot snot if they thought any dodgy dealings were going on.

        Tigers have some weird Channel Island thing going on, so there is possibly more scope for - ahem - creative accounting.
        Im shocked that the Cheaters maybe tigering in some underhand way
        If the lessons of history teach us anything it is that nobody learns the lessons that history teaches us.

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          #19
          Great research Fitzy73.

          I've often heard it said that the standard way of 'beating the salary cap' [both in France and in England] has something to do with the intellectual property rights of the players, but have little idea how that would work – I also think that a couple of the people who have said that to me have little enough idea themselves!

          Would you have an idea how that would play out?

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            #20
            Originally posted by Hugonaut View Post
            Great research Fitzy73.

            I've often heard it said that the standard way of 'beating the salary cap' [both in France and in England] has something to do with the intellectual property rights of the players, but have little idea how that would work – I also think that a couple of the people who have said that to me have little enough idea themselves!

            Would you have an idea how that would play out?

            how much intellectual rights can you get for Chris Ashton.. manu tuilagi and Dylan Harley?????
            "Hell, I'm not saying I'm an angel, but when it came to dirty tricks I couldn't hold a candle to the Irish Mafia" Jimmy Hoffa

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              #21
              Originally posted by NotreDameRFC View Post
              how much intellectual rights can you get for Chris Ashton.. manu tuilagi and Dylan Harley?????
              I think they're shared between them.
              Tis but a scratch.

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                #22
                I hope that the Official Pro 12 site copies the Official Aviva Premiership site, in that it makes available full highlight of all games.

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                  #23
                  Less intellectual property rights, more image rights I suspect.

                  Be interesting to see the arrangements around sponsorship and endorsements, public appearances, use of players image in programmed and kit advertising etc.

                  That's what Woody and the IRFU fell out about wasn't it? And the implication from the fines dished out at the world cup is that English players are doing a handy line in branded kit endorsements.
                  "We will not walk in fear, one of another. We will not be driven into an age of unreason if we dig deep into our history and remember we are not descended from fearful men" Edward R Murrow

                  "Little by little, we have been brought into the present condition in which we are able neither to tolerate the evils from which we suffer, nor the remedies we need to cure them." - Livy


                  "I think that progress has been made by two flames that have always been burning in the human heart. The flame of anger against injustice and the flame of hope that you can build a better world" - Tony Benn

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                    #24
                    Originally posted by Balla Boy View Post
                    Less intellectual property rights, more image rights I suspect.

                    Be interesting to see the arrangements around sponsorship and endorsements, public appearances, use of players image in programmed and kit advertising etc.

                    That's what Woody and the IRFU fell out about wasn't it? And the implication from the fines dished out at the world cup is that English players are doing a handy line in branded kit endorsements.

                    and mouthguard endorsements.....
                    "Hell, I'm not saying I'm an angel, but when it came to dirty tricks I couldn't hold a candle to the Irish Mafia" Jimmy Hoffa

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                      #25
                      The AP teams did have a scheme to get around the salary cap where a player set up a company and received payments for non-playing related work - appearances, "image rights" (use of the player's image on the club's promotional material) and the like.

                      These payments aren't treated as salary so don't count towards the salary cap and from the player's perspective, the money is taxed at business rates rather than personal income tax rates.

                      However HMRC have been clamping down on these "salary avoidance" schemes as it means the employer is also avoiding paying national insurance. Clubs have been picked up for spurious or disproportionate payments, for example, paying a player £000s for an "appearance fee" when he only turned up at a function for 30 minutes or wasn't there at all.

                      AFAIK London Irish and Leicester accounts are also available if any beancounters want to peruse them.
                      Last edited by mikerob; 19th-December-2011, 16:05.

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                        #26
                        Wasnt sure where to put this, really dont like his ideas. dont really want summer rugby
                        http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/rug...tion-time.html
                        Bath owner Bruce Craig insists rugby calendar must divide into club and international competition time
                        Bath owner Bruce Craig has warned rugby’s governing bodies that the club game could struggle to survive in its current form unless radical reforms are made to the domestic and international calendars.

                        By Mick Cleary, Rugby Union Correspondent
                        10:18PM GMT 23 Dec 2011


                        Craig, who amassed a £900 million fortune from his pharmaceutical business, fears conflict could erupt between the club and international game if the existing set-up is maintained.

                        He has called for a partition of the season, so domestic rugby can take place in its own regulated block of time, either in the summer or whenever it is agreed to be played.

                        “The fundamental is to have separation to that we can run our own businesses,” said Craig. “If you want rugby at club level to even have the possibility of being successful then you’ve got to look at change.

                        "If there isn’t any movement then I don’t feel club rugby can continue as it is. It’s impossible to run a business if you don’t control any of it in terms of competitions.

                        "We don’t seek conflict but, that said, the reality is that there probably will be if people aren’t sensible. We’ve got enough cards to play if it comes to that.”


                        Frustration over the division of the international and domestic calendars has often boiled over, although Craig, who took over at Bath 18 months ago, insists that he is no newly-arrived troublemaker on the look-out for a punch-up and a quick buck.

                        “If you wanted to make money you wouldn’t come into rugby,” said Craig. “It’s about trying to break even and not to lose your shirt.
                        "It’s all very well saying that the investors can lump it but the entire game wouldn’t be sustainable without them. We’re paying for the assets, who are the players, and we’re massively constrained in how we can use them. So, let’s sit down and talk. Let’s respect each other and not put up barriers.”
                        Craig proposes that the international bodies have 16 weekends of the year to run their competitions, be it the Six Nations, Tri-Nations or World Cups and Lions tours. There is usually an 11 or 12-game Test schedule for the leading countries.
                        “That leaves 36 weekends for the club game, to be played where we see fit,” said Craig. “If that means the summer, so be it.
                        "If the Six Nations wants to stay where it is, fine. We don’t want to challenge that. We could have a 24-match league season including play-offs. Then there would be a nine-week European competition.
                        "Every fourth year the slot would be a Global Challenge competition, with, say, Toulouse playing the Crusaders, Leinster versus the Stormers or Leicester against Queensland Reds.”
                        Craig, who lives in the south of France and who was speaking from his holiday in Mauritius, has very close ties with the power brokers in France.
                        Several meetings have already taken place and there is much common ground. He would now like for there to be proper negotiations with the unions. And, if not, what then?
                        “We want diplomacy and dialogue, not revolution,” said Craig, whose plans run to individually managed programmes for each international player reintegrating into a club competition.
                        “But we’ve got to show club owners that there’s some light at the end of the tunnel. We just don’t want it all to be handed down to us as it is at the moment.
                        "The IRB rule with a rod of iron. It’s a dictatorship. We’re doing this, you fall in behind. So, let’s talk, let’s have a summit if needs be.”
                        Again, what if talks don’t happen or are not productive?
                        “There’s a certainty that we will get control over certain things and there will be movement on that front within the next three months,” said Craig. “But we don’t want to go there, to pull players. It won’t take long to solve all this between sensible people. It will if there are entrenched views and no respect round the table. Then there will be conflict.”
                        Craig has issues to sort out at Bath, too, where fans are getting agitated about the club’s faltering start to the season.
                        The side take on Northampton at Franklin’s Gardens in the Aviva Premiership on Saturday afternoon, looking to bounce back from a record European defeat at Leinster last weekend – a thrashing witnessed first-hand by Craig – and to improve on their 10th position in the league.
                        So, is director of rugby Sir Ian McGeechan safe in his job?
                        “Of course, I’ve got total confidence in Geech,” said Craig, who brought him to the club. “He’s a brilliant rugby brain and been successful wherever he’s been.
                        "You don’t become a bad coach overnight. I understand the views of supporters. But we’re here for the long-term. I’m not the type to panic. I’m certainly not going to chuck the baby out with the bath water. We are on the right road at Bath.”
                        The second half of the season promises to be lively on several fronts.

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