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Is the Aviva Premiership to follow its Football Equivalent?

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    Is the Aviva Premiership to follow its Football Equivalent?

    With the falling standard in the English national team, the failure of the club teams in recent seasons in the heineken cup, the poor start by this years participants. Does this evidence that the influx of overseas players and vast sums of money are sending the top tier in england in the same direction as the Football Premiership. All Hype ans no Substance.
    Definition of Insanity. Playing the same game plan over and over again expecting a different result.

    #2
    I think it's been the fur coat and no knickers league for a number of years now.

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      #3
      In fairness to the soccer premier league the English clubs in general do quite well in the Champions league. No English rugby teams seem to do well regardless of the tournament Amlin aside.
      I am one of the 5 clowns woo hoo

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        #4
        Their salary cap is, afaik, about £4.2 m. Considering the likes of Toulouse are reported to be spending about €17m, it's not exactly massive.
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          #5
          Originally posted by fitzy73 View Post
          Their salary cap is, afaik, about £4.2 m. Considering the likes of Toulouse are reported to be spending about €17m, it's not exactly massive.
          Thanks for that info on their salary cap fitzy, that explains to me how every four or five years a team has a good run for a few years and then retreats again (sale / gloucester)
          Definition of Insanity. Playing the same game plan over and over again expecting a different result.

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            #6
            I though the salary cap in france was around 7 million??? http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/rugby_union/8420139.stm
            the 17 million budget for toulouse is their total operational budget

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              #7
              Originally posted by ormond lad View Post
              I though the salary cap in france was around 7 million??? http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/rugby_union/8420139.stm
              the 17 million budget for toulouse is their total operational budget
              It is alleged that the salary cap in France is widely ignored.

              Hellboy might have more information.
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                #8
                Salary cap in France is completely ignored. Toulouse have a budget of around 25 million

                Salary cap in England may say 4.2 million but there's ways and means around it. There's no way Sarries, Leicester, and Saints are within it. Sarries had a very good squad before the season started and then they can go and sign John Smit who I'm sure is on huge money (even though he's cat), and Tomkins the rugby league player. All them Saffers ain't there for nothing either

                Leicester have a rake of England internationals and have serious depth. Castro is reportedly on 400k, he had serious offers from France but Leicester were able to stump up the cash to keep him. That's a tenth of 4.2 million, no way they're inside it.

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                  #9
                  Originally posted by porterbelly View Post
                  Salary cap in France is completely ignored. Toulouse have a budget of around 25 million

                  Salary cap in England may say 4.2 million but there's ways and means around it. There's no way Sarries, Leicester, and Saints are within it. Sarries had a very good squad before the season started and then they can go and sign John Smit who I'm sure is on huge money (even though he's cat), and Tomkins the rugby league player. All them Saffers ain't there for nothing either

                  Leicester have a rake of England internationals and have serious depth. Castro is reportedly on 400k, he had serious offers from France but Leicester were able to stump up the cash to keep him. That's a tenth of 4.2 million, no way they're inside it.
                  Are there not exceptions/top-ups allowed for England players etc I thought the RFU provide £100,000 or something per EPS player and that is not included in the Salary Cap?

                  Regarding Sarries you're presumably talking about those really well known Saffers/Namibians like Mouritz Botha, Ernst Joubert and Jaques Burger would have cost them a real packet...Botha was plucked from Coventry (or another ND1 team) and the other two were also relative unknowns. Brits was a decent but not fantastic player for the Stormers. I'd agree that Smit is probably on a decent enough packet.

                  Wouldn't be surprised if Leicester pumped some extra capital into that Restaurant he and Geordy own.

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                    #10
                    Originally posted by porterbelly View Post
                    Salary cap in France is completely ignored. Toulouse have a budget of around 25 million

                    Salary cap in England may say 4.2 million but there's ways and means around it. There's no way Sarries, Leicester, and Saints are within it. Sarries had a very good squad before the season started and then they can go and sign John Smit who I'm sure is on huge money (even though he's cat), and Tomkins the rugby league player. All them Saffers ain't there for nothing either

                    Leicester have a rake of England internationals and have serious depth. Castro is reportedly on 400k, he had serious offers from France but Leicester were able to stump up the cash to keep him. That's a tenth of 4.2 million, no way they're inside it.
                    Sarries are a limited company - Saracens Rugby Limited. You can download their accounts if you like!
                    http://www.companiesintheuk.co.uk/ltd/saracens

                    HMRC would be all over them like a hot snot if they thought any dodgy dealings were going on.

                    Tigers have some weird Channel Island thing going on, so there is possibly more scope for - ahem - creative accounting.
                    Last edited by fitzy73; 15th-December-2011, 22:50.
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                      #11
                      Don't they usually just set up a shelf company and make player x a director and horse him a directors salary alongside the professional wages? Or give the wife a job in the pro shop and pay her megabucks?
                      I am the million man.

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                        #12
                        Originally posted by Cowboy View Post
                        Don't they usually just set up a shelf company and make player x a director and horse him a directors salary alongside the professional wages? Or give the wife a job in the pro shop and pay her megabucks?
                        All outgoings of the limited company - whether they be to another limited company (e.g. a player setting himself up as Castro Ltd) or salaries would be reflected in the annual accounts.

                        However, they may not breakdown where the money is going to specifically i.e they might just have a simple Profit and Loss account showing all income and all expenditure (different rules apply depending on your company income, what it does, whether it's Ltd, PLC, LLP etc etc).
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                          #13
                          Originally posted by fitzy73 View Post
                          All outgoings of the limited company - whether they be to another limited company (e.g. a player setting himself up as Castro Ltd) or salaries would be reflected in the annual accounts.

                          However, they may not breakdown where the money is going to specifically i.e they might just have a simple Profit and Loss account showing all income and all expenditure (different rules apply depending on your company income, what it does, whether it's Ltd, PLC, LLP etc etc).
                          So it's probably a runner Fitzy? What about things like, we'll say the gaffs that the academy here are using for digs? Half the clubs must bury profit/tax liability into properties (or did at least)
                          I am the million man.

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                            #14
                            In reply to the original question I don't give a flying .... Let them look after themselves and let us worry about ourselves.
                            Excellence is hard to keep quite - Sherrie Coale

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                              #15
                              Originally posted by Cowboy View Post
                              So it's probably a runner Fitzy? What about things like, we'll say the gaffs that the academy here are using for digs? Half the clubs must bury profit/tax liability into properties (or did at least)
                              There are always ways - some legitimate, others maybe not so - of injecting funds in here and there.

                              However, the UK revenue are very hot on company accounts, and like nothing more than taking a big scalp, so I'd be surprised if anything too dodgy is going on.

                              If its a legitimate business expense, provisioned for in tax law, then good luck to them.
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