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Gallagher Premiership 2018-19

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    Frankly, **** 'em and the horse they rode in on.

    Salary cap breach has been common knowledge for years now.

    They cheated and deserve everything coming to them.

    If they do collapse it will serve as a lesson to others.

    Have a sneaking suspicion that the ring-fencing of the premiership will be voted through this season.

    Comment


      Chris Robshaw: Saracens’ salary cap breach is ‘cheating’ (via @IrishTimes) https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/rug...ting-1.4074200


      Former England captain Chris Robshaw has branded the financial actions of Saracens Football Club as “cheating.”
      The Premiership and European champions have pledged to fight a 35-point deduction and £5.36 million (€6.2m) fine after they were found to have breached salary cap regulations.
      “Call it what you want. It is cheating,” said Harlequins captain Robshaw at the Heineken Champions Cup launch in Cardiff. “It is not a good situation for our sport to be in. It is not a thing we pride ourselves on.
      “When you look at cheating in athletics, when you look at cheating in cycling, when you look at cheating in baseball, for us for us as a sport we like to think our sport is cleaner and cleaner than everyone else. It is not anymore. It is not. We have to be realistic about that. As a sport we have got to take the damage that comes with that now. I am sure it will be like that for a while. It is not going to be easy for our sport to move forward.
      “I know the World Cup didn’t finish as [England] would have liked but look at the high it brought the country. And now we got some damage control to do.”
      Saracens are expected to be fined for their non-attendance at Wednesday morning’s launch of the European rugby season.
      When Robshaw was asked about the Independent Sports Resolutions committee establishing that Saracens failed to disclose payments to players - including current England captain Owen Farrell, Maro Itoje and the Vunipola brothers - in the past three seasons, he stated: “It’s been one of those things where unfortunately years and years ago it’s one where I think a lot of clubs took a pay out to be quiet about the incident. And now it is one of those things that has been spoken about for a long time amongst players and the wider public.
      We look at their squad and it is a big squad of international players. I don’t think you have to be a genius to work one of these things out. It looks like it is starting to be dealt with and hopefully it is going in the right direction. Hopefully we can get back to a level playing field. Because that is what the salary cap is about, isn’t it? Making sure everyone has a chance, everyone has the same level and we can compete and we have a competitive league.”
      Robshaw was then asked how frustrating it is that the Premiership hasn’t been a ‘level playing field’ as Saracens captured the 2018 and 2019 titles.
      “Saracens are the benchmark. Rightly or wrongly - from what they have done off the field - they have set the standard with their players, the way they play, what they wonlegally or illegally. It is tough to compete against. Look at everyone else battling to make salary caps especially when there are three or four injuries in one position. You might have an academy guy coming through who has never played.
      “Again, it is trying to make the game more even.
      “It is not great the game that we loved is in the world eye. The pinnacle of English rugby is illegal. I think it puts our sport in a very dangerous place. We are a sport that always claimed to be whiter than white, we would look down on football and look down on this and that, we would say how it is but we are like everyone else.”
      Following Saracens no show in Cardiff on Wednesday morning, there was a general feeling of disrespect cast over the Champions Cup launch at the Principality stadium.

      Comment


        Harlequins were fined £6 grand approx a few years ago, 50p per £1 overspent.

        Does this fine mean that Sa(lar)ries overspent by £10.72 Million last year?

        When the cap was £7 Million???

        Comment


          Originally posted by Piquet View Post
          Harlequins were fined £6 grand approx a few years ago, 50p per £1 overspent.

          Does this fine mean that Sa(lar)ries overspent by £10.72 Million last year?

          When the cap was £7 Million???
          isn't the fine 3 per 1 overspent?

          Its hard to see the owners going now when the investment money has only come into the league, and english rugby doing so well in the World Cup, but hey its not going to keep me up at night, Sarries has easily been the most unwelcoming of the many I've visited over the years in a Munster Jersey (well except leinster i suppose)

          Comment


            Originally posted by The Last Stand View Post

            You can’t blame them. Sarries had the rules changed twice to up the salary cap which other clubs would not have been able to afford. But they were not satisfied with that and clearly breached it. It clearly gave them advantages - a bigger squad, more marquee players etc etc

            To be fair to Saracens they did grow a lot of these player but kept onto them through unfair competition.
            I don’t blame them at all. They did ‘develop’ a lot of players, but so do Exeter and others- this issue is how you hold on to these players- if others can manage, within the salary cap, to afford one. What Sarries do is pay within the cap, but supplement the deals by various other ruses. The players are, therefore, complicit (in my view). If the salary cap is operating it has a deflationary effect on salaries, and yes that means that players lose out, unless they move, if the owner decides to import. It’s cynical and exploitative- but then this is Saracens.

            Comment


              Originally posted by Piquet View Post
              Harlequins were fined £6 grand approx a few years ago, 50p per £1 overspent.

              Does this fine mean that Sa(lar)ries overspent by £10.72 Million last year?

              When the cap was £7 Million???
              Wasn't the investigation over three seasons as opposed to one? The cap isn't really £7m either as you can have two "marquee" players totally outside the cap plus injury jokers and some other exemptions.

              Comment


                Fair enough. If you take the total and divide by three and estimate a figure that would cover the exemptions, say £2 Million, that has them £3 Million-ish above a limit of, say £9 Million.

                A sizeable overspend.

                Comment


                  Originally posted by Piquet View Post
                  Fair enough. If you take the total and divide by three and estimate a figure that would cover the exemptions, say £2 Million, that has them £3 Million-ish above a limit of, say £9 Million.

                  A sizeable overspend.

                  Yes, it is, but TMK the "investments" made in 5/6 properties with players by Nigel Wray, as an individual, are not included in these fines, as they are long term and difficult to calculate.

                  For example lets say Farrell is living in a property worth 1m, Wray, worth personally about 200m, puts up .5m through an offshore company into this property and Farrell say borrows the other half, Farrell starts his monthly mortgage payment which would be only half of what the normal rental would be.

                  Really impossible to make an assessment until maybe the property was sold.

                  Wray's argument is the "investment" is a private matter with the players and nothing to do with salary.

                  Comment


                    Originally posted by The Last Stand View Post

                    The London Times was feeling sorry for the players who had these company investment deals. Maybe I am naturally suspicious but surely they had some idea that an investment vehicle in lieu of pay as part of their overall package had something to do with the salary cap?
                    agree with you,id say theres no doubt about it that the players were aware but were prob told it was all compliant with rules and regulations etc.
                    i dont have any sympathy for a club that breaks the rules either in a money sense or otherwise. my original comment was about the grassroots people who know little or next to nothing about what goes on at corporate level in clubs.

                    Comment


                      Originally posted by Piquet View Post
                      Fair enough. If you take the total and divide by three and estimate a figure that would cover the exemptions, say £2 Million, that has them £3 Million-ish above a limit of, say £9 Million.

                      A sizeable overspend.
                      They were roughly about £600k above the salary cap on average for the last three seasons. They were, according to reports, fined £3 for every £1 of overspend.

                      There appears to be different levels on fines depending on the scale of the overspend.

                      Comment



                        It was pointed out today that Strettle had to be released by Quins as they could only fit 3 of their 4 wingers into the cap. He left and went to Sarries.
                        "We will not walk in fear, one of another. We will not be driven into an age of unreason if we dig deep into our history and remember we are not descended from fearful men" Edward R Murrow

                        "Little by little, we have been brought into the present condition in which we are able neither to tolerate the evils from which we suffer, nor the remedies we need to cure them." - Livy


                        "I think that progress has been made by two flames that have always been burning in the human heart. The flame of anger against injustice and the flame of hope that you can build a better world" - Tony Benn

                        Comment


                          Originally posted by Mr Snrub View Post

                          Bawlllucks to you, Sir. I'd like to think that if illicit and unlawful practices were being carried out at Munster that people would speak up. Indeed it's important to cultivate an atmosphere that makes it clear that corruption won't be tolerated.

                          Everybody knew. It was reported all over national newspapers ages ago. And if I knew about it, having no connection to Saracens whatsover, then the claim that people involved in the club had no idea what was going is, you will concede, at least suspect.

                          The Eric Cartman rationale was being applied:

                          "The reason that you think you can't get into college is because you haven't been taught... how to cheat properly. How do you think white people always get ahead? Because we cheat all the time- I mean because they cheat all the time. This is Bill Belichick, coach of the New England Patriots He's won three Super Bowls. How? He cheated. He even got caught cheating, and nobody cared. Bill Belichick proved that in America it's okay to cheat. As long as you cheat your way to the top."
                          That's crap. Would you say same the the same for bank tellers at Anglo Irish? The security guard at Lehmans?

                          People lower down the food chain assume that those in charge are doing the right thing and keeping within the rules. They are the do'ers of the organisation, the lifeblood of it. They haven't the time, nor the inclination, to worry about corporate governance. Nor should they - it's literally above their pay grade.

                          As I've already said, I do not like Saracens the institution. I don't like the crap they did with music, and I think their flouting of the salary cap was outrageous.

                          However, I can divorce the institution from the individuals at a lower level. To be happy that genuine rugby people could lose their jobs shows a staggering lack of emotional intelligence.

                          Please support Milford Hospice. Click here to donate.

                          Comment


                            Nigel Wrays video statement on the whole situation- Grab some popcorn
                            https://twitter.com/Saracens/status/1192140756892422150
                            "If all the wild horsemen of the apocalypse came around the corner O'Mahony would charge straight back at them."
                            Will Greenwood

                            Comment


                              Originally posted by Captain Fantastic View Post
                              Nigel Wrays video statement on the whole situation- Grab some popcorn
                              https://twitter.com/Saracens/status/1192140756892422150
                              To throw at the screen? "Investment in property isn't salary, it's a risk"
                              Last edited by ustix; 6th-November-2019, 19:57.
                              Gwan Joe!!

                              Comment


                                "If you think it's about money you're wrong. It's about caring and love and working together".

                                "We do not believe we broke the wage cap".

                                There you have it in a nut shell.
                                Gwan Joe!!

                                Comment

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