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    Even though it's been flagged for a while I still feel sorry for their supporters and club members coaches etc .
    by this I mean the ones who work at underage level and go to games week in and out without knowing much at all about what goes on at corporate or company level.

    Comment


      Originally posted by glorob View Post
      Starriest will survive even if the points deduction and fine are not reduced on appeal.

      I have little doubt they will be back at the top of the Premiership in 2020/21 season.

      Last time I was there (January 2016) was a very enjoyable experience, apart from the result.
      I'd forgotten that they are due a bunch of cash from the CVC buy out, which might be enough to save them. Might be.

      Have a look at Companies House website and search for Premier Team Holdings Limited.

      They aren't pretty accounts.
      Please support Milford Hospice. Click here to donate.

      Comment


        Originally posted by fitzy73 View Post


        I do not like Saracens the institution. but to say that "Any defence of anybody involved in the club at any level is ridiculous" is just b*llocks.

        I know a number of people who work for Saracens, in junior coaching and outreach capacity. To a man and woman they have been fantastic to deal with and are real rugby people. Do you think they mull over the financial statements and Companies house data on a weekly basis? They do in their hole.

        It's highly likely they will lose their jobs if Sarries go under.

        I hope you are enjoying your schadenfreude.
        Hear, hear.
        Watford born, so unsurprisingly know a few Sarries supporters. and people who’ve been involved with them.
        Even had free tickets off them.
        That said, it never went well for us when I brought youth teams to Finchley.
        Not overly keen on the soccer template they use for mini/junior level.
        So many kids, I think to the detriment of neighbouring clubs.
        Works for them though.

        The Girl will shed no tears for them it’s fair to say.
        The pre Christmas trip will be interesting.

        english by birth

        Comment


          Originally posted by fitzy73 View Post

          I'd forgotten that they are due a bunch of cash from the CVC buy out, which might be enough to save them. Might be.

          Have a look at Companies House website and search for Premier Team Holdings Limited.

          They aren't pretty accounts.
          I am of the view that the backers of Saracens are in this for the long haul, very similar to Venture Capitalists backing many SAAS companies.

          Comment


            Originally posted by RED 49 View Post
            Even though it's been flagged for a while I still feel sorry for their supporters and club members coaches etc .
            by this I mean the ones who work at underage level and go to games week in and out without knowing much at all about what goes on at corporate or company level.
            Agree but the level playing field is important. If a club up the road faithfully applies the rules but cannot recruit/compete because someone else has a liberal interpretation, is that fair? They did not play by the rules and has an advantage as a result.

            Comment


              Originally posted by glorob View Post
              Sarries will survive even if the points deduction and fine are not reduced on appeal.

              I have little doubt they will be back at the top of the Premiership in 2020/21 season.

              Last time I was there (January 2016) was a very enjoyable experience, apart from the result.
              Perhaps, but it will be a whole lot more difficult without a raft of foreign internationals and ex England internationals who don't play in the 6N while the core of the team is on England duty.

              In my opinion, those sanctions are nowhere near hard enough on them. if Wray decides to stick it out, a 5 million pound fine for winning 3 Prem titles and 3 HC's will be money well spent. They'll hold most of their powder for europe this year and just do enough to avoid relegation in their domestic league. The titles should be stripped and they should have to come under the cap NOW. They should have 10-14 days maximum to decide which players to cut loose and which to keep. All title bonuses should be forfeit by the players, and any player who "went into business" with Wray should serve a 5-10 match ban starting after the mandatory rest period for the guys who played in the WC, including european games.

              Comment


                Interesting that Exeter, Worcester are coming out to defend the decision, and want more serious sanctions- a stark difference from a few years ago when the whole system clammed up. Also read the story-related posts on the BBC site and the vast majority were along the lines of ‘about time’.

                Comment


                  https://www.rte.ie/sport/rugby/2019/...ens-relegated/


                  No details have been revealed on the size of the undisclosed payments or the recipients, but Premiership Rugby's investigations were thought to have centred around Wray's involvements in companies such as VunProp Ltd (Mako and Billy Vunipola), Faz Investments Ltd (Owen Farrell), Wiggy9 Ltd (Richard Wigglesworth) and MN Property Solutions Ltd (Maro Itoje)

                  not suspicious... not suspicious at all!
                  He was as lame as a duck. Not the metaphorical lame duck either, but a real duck that was actually lame. Maybe from stepping on a land mine or something.

                  Comment


                    Team Orc will make this go away. That Sarries side got them to a RWC final, they won't kill the goose laying the golden egg
                    I am the million man.

                    Comment


                      Originally posted by jagawayagain View Post
                      Interesting that Exeter, Worcester are coming out to defend the decision, and want more serious sanctions- a stark difference from a few years ago when the whole system clammed up. Also read the story-related posts on the BBC site and the vast majority were along the lines of ‘about time’.
                      You can’t blame them. Sarries had the rules changed twice to up the salary cap which other clubs would not have been able to afford. But they were not satisfied with that and clearly breached it. It clearly gave them advantages - a bigger squad, more marquee players etc etc

                      To be fair to Saracens they did grow a lot of these player but kept onto them through unfair competition.

                      Comment


                        Originally posted by RED 49 View Post
                        Even though it's been flagged for a while I still feel sorry for their supporters and club members coaches etc .
                        by this I mean the ones who work at underage level and go to games week in and out without knowing much at all about what goes on at corporate or company level.
                        The London Times was feeling sorry for the players who had these company investment deals. Maybe I am naturally suspicious but surely they had some idea that an investment vehicle in lieu of pay as part of their overall package had something to do with the salary cap?

                        Comment


                          It’s possible that they will be below the cap this year with the current squad. The investments could have been lump sums that covered a number of years in a contract but will have been ‘banked’ in the year they were made.

                          ie. A player gets 400k on top of his official figure for a 3 year deal so nidge Wray put 1.2mil into their investment two years ago.

                          Comment


                            an interesting revision of the Wiki Premiership Rugby Page


                            Click image for larger version

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                            Comment


                              Originally posted by The Last Stand View Post

                              You can’t blame them. Sarries had the rules changed twice to up the salary cap which other clubs would not have been able to afford. But they were not satisfied with that and clearly breached it. It clearly gave them advantages - a bigger squad, more marquee players etc etc

                              To be fair to Saracens they did grow a lot of these player but kept onto them through unfair competition.
                              Do they pay more than others for their academy also? So can get the pick of the crop?

                              edit - the academy covers a defined geographical area. Seemingly 51% of the senior squad came from the academy.
                              Last edited by The Last Stand; 6th-November-2019, 11:30.

                              Comment


                                Originally posted by fitzy73 View Post


                                I do not like Saracens the institution. but to say that "Any defence of anybody involved in the club at any level is ridiculous" is just b*llocks.

                                I know a number of people who work for Saracens, in junior coaching and outreach capacity. To a man and woman they have been fantastic to deal with and are real rugby people. Do you think they mull over the financial statements and Companies house data on a weekly basis? They do in their hole.

                                It's highly likely they will lose their jobs if Sarries go under.

                                I hope you are enjoying your schadenfreude.
                                Bawlllucks to you, Sir. I'd like to think that if illicit and unlawful practices were being carried out at Munster that people would speak up. Indeed it's important to cultivate an atmosphere that makes it clear that corruption won't be tolerated.

                                Everybody knew. It was reported all over national newspapers ages ago. And if I knew about it, having no connection to Saracens whatsover, then the claim that people involved in the club had no idea what was going is, you will concede, at least suspect.

                                The Eric Cartman rationale was being applied:

                                "The reason that you think you can't get into college is because you haven't been taught... how to cheat properly. How do you think white people always get ahead? Because we cheat all the time- I mean because they cheat all the time. This is Bill Belichick, coach of the New England Patriots He's won three Super Bowls. How? He cheated. He even got caught cheating, and nobody cared. Bill Belichick proved that in America it's okay to cheat. As long as you cheat your way to the top."
                                Last edited by Mr Snrub; 6th-November-2019, 11:51.

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