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    #76
    Originally posted by redherring View Post
    Is there a possibility of regionalising the lower divisions north and south? I can't see provincial system working for the reasons OL gave.
    Clubs have looked at it but rejected it in votes several times i believe.
    There is 9 Ulster, 8 Munster, 10 Leinster, 3 Connacht in division 2
    Put Sligo with Ulster sides and the two galway sides with Munster clubs and you have ten clubs in each section but im not sure making the top division 2 clubs like a Malone, Highfield, Nenagh etc playing more games against Tullamore, Bective, Midleton being good for either of them.

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      #77
      Originally posted by ormond lad View Post
      Clubs have looked at it but rejected it in votes several times i believe.
      There is 9 Ulster, 8 Munster, 10 Leinster, 3 Connacht in division 2
      Put Sligo with Ulster sides and the two galway sides with Munster clubs and you have ten clubs in each section but im not sure making the top division 2 clubs like a Malone, Highfield, Nenagh etc playing more games against Tullamore, Bective, Midleton being good for either of them.
      It would be good for the winners of the Munster junior league to get direct promotion into the senior regional division. It would allow promotion without the massive travel bill that puts off some junior clubs. It might allow clubs to put their hard earned cash into infrastructure and player development rather than hotels.

      Top Div 2 clubs should have no problem getting promoted from their divisions if the standard would drop so much with regionalisation.

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        #78
        Originally posted by timcno3 View Post
        It would be good for the winners of the Munster junior league to get direct promotion into the senior regional division. It would allow promotion without the massive travel bill that puts off some junior clubs. It might allow clubs to put their hard earned cash into infrastructure and player development rather than hotels.

        Top Div 2 clubs should have no problem getting promoted from their divisions if the standard would drop so much with regionalisation.
        Not necessarily a winner of junior league would struggle considerably against a top division2A side which would happen with regionalisation and wouldnt be good for anyone.
        It would cut the travel bill but that alone isnt good enough to do it.

        Comment


          #79
          Originally posted by ormond lad View Post
          Not necessarily a winner of junior league would struggle considerably against a top division2A side which would happen with regionalisation and wouldnt be good for anyone.
          It would cut the travel bill but that alone isn't good enough to do it.
          The bottom of the Junior league Div 1 struggle against the top teams.
          Would it suit the junior league winners better to get hammered by the top of the senior regional division or hammering the bottom of the Junior league Div 1.

          There has been plenty of examples of promoted junior teams romping through the lowest senior division.
          Survival is the goal of most promoted teams on their first year.
          If they are not able then they will come straight back down.
          And if the top clubs are so good they will be promoted.
          That is the brutal fairness of a straight league system.

          I don't think this would happen because of senior clubs not voting for relegation to junior.

          Senior seconds is a problem, if you could expand the munster junior leagues to include them maybe in a north south split with play-offs and finals, it would make for great competitions and would improve the senior seconds massively.

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            #80
            Originally posted by timcno3 View Post
            The bottom of the Junior league Div 1 struggle against the top teams.
            Would it suit the junior league winners better to get hammered by the top of the senior regional division or hammering the bottom of the Junior league Div 1.

            There has been plenty of examples of promoted junior teams romping through the lowest senior division.
            Survival is the goal of most promoted teams on their first year.
            If they are not able then they will come straight back down.
            And if the top clubs are so good they will be promoted.
            That is the brutal fairness of a straight league system.

            I don't think this would happen because of senior clubs not voting for relegation to junior.

            Senior seconds is a problem, if you could expand the munster junior leagues to include them maybe in a north south split with play-offs and finals, it would make for great competitions and would improve the senior seconds massively.
            Senior seconds is a major problem and including them somehow in junior/qualifying rugby could help
            Yes bottom sides in junior division 1 struggle against top sides but step up to senior is something else. Yes some clubs go straight up a division but most dont and takes them time to go up divisions if at all.
            There has been a few examples of junior clubs going straight through the bottom division like Cashel, Seapoint but many have seriously struggled/been very mediocre when theyve went senior.
            Possibly could look at senior seconds joining junior leagues. It happens in Connacht because of necessity but elsewhere doesnt. In Leinster they have metro leagues divisions 1-11(only 10 actual divisions) and thats a mix of senior clubs 2nds-6ths as well as some clubs firsts(those who dont want to/arent ready/able to step up) not in the leinster junior league system.
            It may help senior seconds but finding proper level of the junior league for 2nds to play would be an issue

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              #81
              Originally posted by ormond lad View Post
              Senior seconds is a major problem and including them somehow in junior/qualifying rugby could help
              Yes bottom sides in junior division 1 struggle against top sides but step up to senior is something else. Yes some clubs go straight up a division but most dont and takes them time to go up divisions if at all.
              There has been a few examples of junior clubs going straight through the bottom division like Cashel, Seapoint but many have seriously struggled/been very mediocre when theyve went senior.
              Possibly could look at senior seconds joining junior leagues. It happens in Connacht because of necessity but elsewhere doesnt. In Leinster they have metro leagues divisions 1-11(only 10 actual divisions) and thats a mix of senior clubs 2nds-6ths as well as some clubs firsts(those who dont want to/arent ready/able to step up) not in the leinster junior league system.
              It may help senior seconds but finding proper level of the junior league for 2nds to play would be an issue
              The Pan Munster model where the levels are set each year by a local qualifying round might work, but you would get junior league Div 3 teams getting hammered by top senior seconds and top junior clubs.
              But these clubs would then find meaningful rugby in the bowl competition.
              It would lead to lots of local derbies at the beginning of the year and a lot of competitive games for the rest of the year.

              The top junior club could play-off against the bottom senior club for promotion/relegation.

              Comment


                #82
                Originally posted by timcno3 View Post
                The Pan Munster model where the levels are set each year by a local qualifying round might work, but you would get junior league Div 3 teams getting hammered by top senior seconds and top junior clubs.
                But these clubs would then find meaningful rugby in the bowl competition.
                It would lead to lots of local derbies at the beginning of the year and a lot of competitive games for the rest of the year.

                The top junior club could play-off against the bottom senior club for promotion/relegation.
                That doesnt do anyone any good though at adult level. There already is local derbies in the form of the local cup competitions which start the season like the Garryowen cup in tipp, mcinerney cup in Limerick/clare.
                The underage format works quite well but isnt needed at adult level. A weaker junior division 3 will just concede games if theyve to play a Clonmel/strong shannon 2nds in early season. That isnt whats needed. And there isnt the strength in depth for promoting 3/4 sides to senior status year on year

                Comment


                  #83
                  Originally posted by ormond lad View Post
                  Senior seconds is a major problem and including them somehow in junior/qualifying rugby could help
                  Yes bottom sides in junior division 1 struggle against top sides but step up to senior is something else. Yes some clubs go straight up a division but most dont and takes them time to go up divisions if at all.
                  There has been a few examples of junior clubs going straight through the bottom division like Cashel, Seapoint but many have seriously struggled/been very mediocre when theyve went senior.
                  Possibly could look at senior seconds joining junior leagues. It happens in Connacht because of necessity but elsewhere doesnt. In Leinster they have metro leagues divisions 1-11(only 10 actual divisions) and thats a mix of senior clubs 2nds-6ths as well as some clubs firsts(those who dont want to/arent ready/able to step up) not in the leinster junior league system.
                  It may help senior seconds but finding proper level of the junior league for 2nds to play would be an issue
                  The Pan Munster model where the levels are set each year by a local qualifying round might work, but you would get junior league Div 3 teams getting hammered by top senior seconds and top junior clubs.
                  But these clubs would then find meaningful rugby in the bowl competition.
                  It would lead to lots of local derbies at the beginning of the year and a lot of competitive games for the rest of the year.

                  The top junior club could play-off against the bottom senior club for promotion/relegation.

                  Comment


                    #84
                    Originally posted by timcno3 View Post
                    The Pan Munster model where the levels are set each year by a local qualifying round might work, but you would get junior league Div 3 teams getting hammered by top senior seconds and top junior clubs.
                    But these clubs would then find meaningful rugby in the bowl competition.
                    It would lead to lots of local derbies at the beginning of the year and a lot of competitive games for the rest of the year.

                    The top junior club could play-off against the bottom senior club for promotion/relegation.
                    Following the youths structure wouldnt necessarily work in adult rugby. I would simply put in senior clubs 2nds into junior leagues by rankings of previous season. Reducing size of divisions also is very necessary. 14 team divisions is way too many.




                    And Ard Scoil Ris Old Boys appear to be happening. Not sure why this was granted when there is enough issues with clubs and fielding teams in North Munster as it is already.
                    http://limerickrugby.ie/exciting-new...medium=twitter

                    Like is a 14th club really necessary? Why are Branch giving go ahead to this when it would be better for all these players(60 if this is true) to be playing across all the other clubs. The 2nds league has been a joke for years. This new club doesnt help any

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                      #85
                      No harm in trying something new, but can't see low level junior club fullfiling a fixture against the likes of Cork Con 2nds which would impact on the integrity of the competition. Some clubs may decide to tank to qualify for bowl and then pack their team to try and win silverware.
                      Its deja vu all over again!!!

                      Comment


                        #86
                        Originally posted by Crescent boy 2 View Post
                        No harm in trying something new, but can't see low level junior club fullfiling a fixture against the likes of Cork Con 2nds which would impact on the integrity of the competition. Some clubs may decide to tank to qualify for bowl and then pack their team to try and win silverware.
                        Yeah like i said earlier following youths rugby structure at adult level isnt the right idea.
                        Id would have top senior seconds sides playing top junior clubs with the smaller/weaker senior seconds sides playing lower level junior clubs if you were to do it this way but something does need to change between junior 1 leagues/gleeson-south j2 leagues and senior 2nds leagues

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                          #87
                          Any further thoughts on this?
                          And not that it says much about club/schools rugby in the province but this forum(irish club rugby) is now dead. Any reason for that?

                          Comment


                            #88
                            One reason could be you constantly telling posters where they are and aren't allowed to post things and then constantly saying that any suggestions for change are without merit. Don't be surprised that in the end you ended up talking to yourself.

                            Comment


                              #89
                              Originally posted by AwayFromHome View Post
                              One reason could be you constantly telling posters where they are and aren't allowed to post things and then constantly saying that any suggestions for change are without merit. Don't be surprised that in the end you ended up talking to yourself.
                              Do I? where?
                              What suggestions have i said are without merit? And putting blame on me is just ridiculous

                              Comment


                                #90
                                Originally posted by ormond lad View Post
                                Do I? where?
                                What suggestions have i said are without merit? And putting blame on me is just ridiculous
                                Seriously? All over the shop chief.

                                Just take a look through any thread in this section and it is basically a blog of you bashing down anyone with views of change which ends when the other party just gets pissed off being told they are an idiot. With regard to specifics it would be easier if I asked you of a suggestion that you haven't had a go at.

                                I'm not having a go, though I'm sure you see it like that. I'm just pointing out to you how your approach to discussion comes across so your not surprised that others don't feel like engaging in it.

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